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Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

blackhole.plav.in

171–180 of 204 posts

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#171
post #14

I remember like 10 years ago when Occulus first came out there was that space simulation demo where you could go around the solar system in VR. You could also "fast travel" by zooming in towards a planet, moon, blackhole. Yeah, that was the day I learned I have a deep, crippling phobia of large objects. And Melanoheliophobia, which is fear of black holes. The only other time I've felt that way was snorkeling once nea…

I can't play Outer Wilds specifically because of this. Specially because of the black holes.

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#172
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd think, and yet, they happily slapped the Harvard BHI name on something that doesn't do what it says on the tin. I think ignorance is preferable to deliberate deception, so I assumed ignorance.

i think they've made some decently reasonable comments explaining their choices, whether you agree or not, and coming in with a shallow dismissal solely consisting of "llm garbage, must be an idiot" is a pretty shitty thing to do (let alone specifically against the rules). 20k's comments open up conversation and engage with the content. yours is just boring, encourages no conversation, and is basically a copy/paste o…

Well, I think the tide of LLM flotsam inundating the submissions makes HN a worse place. So I'll keep on complaining, and you can downvote me about it.

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> completely arbitrary You agree that it isn’t “physically accurate”, then… but seem to argue that you shouldn’t be called out for the false title? It’s fair enough to be called clickbait when you really did score extra clicks with a slick falsehood, surely?

Arguing about colormap choice seems very strange to be – this is such a common practice in astronomy (and other fields!). The vast majority of images you see in published papers apply some arbitrarily-chosen colormap and color scheme. No matter if you look at observational or theory papers, it's very rare to find a real true-color image. And for a bunch of good reasons! The only difference here is that I don't show a…

>> I consider the colormap choice to be completely arbitrary though

> Arguing about colormap choice seems very strange to be – this is such a common practice in astronomy (and other fields!).

Let's see if I can give a feel for why "physically accurate" and "arbitrary color", when applied to a physical object, seems a problematic juxtaposition. Especially in outreach. Even in astronomy, whose relation with color is... notably flexible. Especially when the colors "arbitrarily" chosen, seem instead optimized for breeding misconceptions. Consider the Sun.

A solar observatory outreach center had a big Sun ball a few meters across. They painted it yellow. When asked why yellow, they explained "It's what people expect".

For years I'd ask first-tier astronomy graduate students (something like): "A five-year old comes up to you says 'I'm told the Sun is a big hot ball! Awesome, I love balls. What color is the ball?' How do you answer the five-year old?". Most said yellow. Of the few who got it right, about half had learned it in a class covering common misconceptions in astronomy education. A follow-up question of "What color is sunlight?" gets most to a "Wait, that doesn't make sense, does it?" moment. Two incompatible memorized factoids, that have managed to remain unintegrated since kindergarten or so.

All fields face challenges of information representation, especially in outreach. But astronomy... is special. Imagine zoology presenting elephants as green, from kindergarten through undergraduate, in education and outreach. PBS and zoos colorize their elephants green, with DaVinci and spray paint respectively, because it's what people expect. A kindergarten student thus misled, only years later might hear "gray", if they become a zoology graduate student, and take a "we suck at teaching" elective seminar, offered at their first-tier center for zoology research, because it just happens to also be a first-tier center for zoology education research.

The closest similar case I can think of in other fields, is video representations of molecular biology. Where a tormented kinesin mouse, desperately clinging to a microtubule wire in a hellish hurricane, with a flailing blur of a vacuole balloon tied to it's tail... somehow gets represented as a lumbering donkey, dragging a massive canal barge, on a quiet summer day. Later revised by making the donkey and barge jiggle in place, for an extra slathering of misleading bogosity. With authors explicitly saying they prioritized "pretty" over fueling misconceptions.

Other highlights include the 2002 "Universe is green" front-page news - outreach outside of their focus, using open-source color software with a bug, and not managing an integrated understanding's "wait, that's not plausible".

Perhaps the app's black background might be changed to green? Given that it's an arbitrarily-chosen colormap, but physically accurate visualization, of a physical object. Or perhaps a nice Scottish tartan, or pink pokadots, for the accretion disk? Both would mitigate the educationally problematic juxtaposition of "accurate" and arbitrary color, by emphasizing the aphysicality of that arbitrary. Actually not kidding (much). When an aphysical representation choice is needed, one can do worse than to optimize for fewer misconceptions, no? Better a tartan Sun than a yellow one?

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#174
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think they've made some decently reasonable comments explaining their choices, whether you agree or not, and coming in with a shallow dismissal solely consisting of "llm garbage, must be an idiot" is a pretty shitty thing to do (let alone specifically against the rules). 20k's comments open up conversation and engage with the content. yours is just boring, encourages no conversation, and is basically a copy/paste o…

Well, I think the tide of LLM flotsam inundating the submissions makes HN a worse place. So I'll keep on complaining, and you can downvote me about it.

>Well, I think the tide of LLM flotsam inundating the submissions makes HN a worse place.

writing the 1000th "llm garbage is bad" comment of the day is your solution? im not sure i understand the logic, despite agreeing with the premise.

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#176
post #34

If anyone's interested in the accuracy, this is very 'visualisation grade' software. Its a bit of a pet peeve of mine that people present these sims as being very physically accurate, when they contain major inaccuracies, some of which are very obvious and/or deliberate. This one has some serious physical limitations I wouldn't mind at all if it didn't say that this was a *physically accurate* black hole specifically…

You know, I am interested in the accuracy.

I like what OP has created, but out of curiosity, where might I find the most physically-accurate, browser-based black hole simulation?

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#177
> unfortunately, WebXR restrictions make AR passthrough and the camera feed mutually exclusive

It looks like Chromium-based browsers might be doable?[1][2]

Meta: About a decade ago, I rolled my own WebXR-like stack with passthrough, and played with an XR Powers of Ten zoomer. Here we are years later, and it's apparently still not something which might be deployed. In some sense, we are progressing so sloooowly.

[1] https://caniuse.com/wf-webxr-camera [2] https://immersive-web.github.io/raw-camera-access/

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#178

> unfortunately, WebXR restrictions make AR passthrough and the camera feed mutually exclusive It looks like Chromium-based browsers might be doable?[1][2] Meta: About a decade ago, I rolled my own WebXR-like stack with passthrough, and played with an XR Powers of Ten zoomer. Here we are years later, and it's apparently still not something which might be deployed. In some sense, we are progressing so sloooowly. [1] h…

Hmm, interesting! I saw that it's a draft, and didn't investigate further. Maybe it does work indeed on some browsers.

Generally, the compatibility story turned out more fragmented than I expected. Eg, on my phone, Chrome can do AR – but cannot do two camera feeds at once; while Firefox is the exact opposite – no AR but can do both cameras at once, so that you see both front and rear lensed around the black hole properly (in the camera mode).

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#179

> https://blackhole.plav.in/ The lines in the demo look upscaled and aliased for some reason.

Could you please share a screenshot so that I investigate what actually happens? I tested on a few different devices, but far from anything extensive.

Re: Show HN: Physically accurate black hole you can put in your room

#180

Can i make an analogue version of this somehow? That would be ultra cool

You mean, without a camera and a screen, out of pure physical objects? You can actually reproduce gravitational light bending quite accurately with a properly-shaped lens (some wine glasses are surprisingly close!), see eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PviYbX7cUUg for a classical wine glass experiment, or https://sites.google.com/view/jeansurdej/gravitational-lense... for purpose-made lenses. It only reproduces the so-called "weak field" bending, not light that makes half a turn (coming from behind you) or more.
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