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AI companies are shredding rare books

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Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#401

There needs to be wider reporting of this if it is true. Where are the journalists ? If this is true, it is scorched earth on the world's knowledge base. And the business models are not proven yet. I can now see why some ai companies paints a dire picture of the future - they are basically annihilating all knowledge sources at the altar of their ai gods. I can also see why there is growing ai-skepticism.

Because there's nothing to report. Books like this are routinely thrown out. By publishers, libraries, and regular people alike.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#403
post #33

The comments there are absolutely unhinged. There are some good reasons for being anti-AI, but why dilute it with this kind of bullshit: > It is equivalent to book burning in the past. A form of thought control

You're right, it is arguably worse than book burning, not only are they seeking to deprive others of the books, they also want to profit off it.

>they seeking to deprive others of the books

Yeah, this isn't a thing. Throwing out books, even "rare" ones, is a regular procedure. And if you really want to read 'em, you can buy any of these books right now.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#404
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's only true if you think digital storage has more longevity than paper. It doesn't.

Then why are people so worried about the paper not surviving?

Because its longevity depends on not being deliberately destroyed.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#405

I've limited sympathy for the publishers. It pisses me off to reflect that they can sit on works until copyright expires, keeping them out of print. There's no real need for any of these so-called rare books to be rare while they're under copyright. And related to this, the books that are in print are mostly only in print in the shittiest way. I often see well-made books from the 17th or 18th centuries which are stil…

Thanks for your thoughts, but how is this is anyway relevant to the issue at hand? I'm sad that this is the top comment...

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is mold. Sealed plastic bags for old books is a recipe for mold. At least they're individually stored, so they would develop mold at independent rates. (And maybe the seal allows airflow.) Most books have some mold by the time they're ~100 years old, it's just not enough to cause a serious problem. Sealed enclosures (wrappings, bags, tubs) are a nightmare situation. Even packing books too tighly on shelves…

If I did that I'd seal them with silica gel to keep the humidity down.

I would think this totally dries the pages out and then they just turn to dust, from experience.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#407

I've limited sympathy for the publishers. It pisses me off to reflect that they can sit on works until copyright expires, keeping them out of print. There's no real need for any of these so-called rare books to be rare while they're under copyright. And related to this, the books that are in print are mostly only in print in the shittiest way. I often see well-made books from the 17th or 18th centuries which are stil…

The post doesn't call for the sympathy for the publishers, so I'm not sure what you're responding to.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#408
I feel outraged, but I also worry this article isn't necessarily responding to what's actually happening.

It's a weird practice to destroy a book when you digitize it, but it's at least an understandable legal strategy to ensure that the digital copy "replaces" the physical one. However, this is only going to apply to books that have active copyrights.

This author suggests that a rare 18th-century botanical text could fall victim to the same fate, but I am somehow doubtful that this is the case. Non-destructive scanning is trivial, and these kinds of books are likely being processed in a quantity that would allow for it without backing up the pipeline.

I really like 404 media, but it doesn't really seem like the evidence points to the conclusion here. Yes, AI companies are shredding books that they digitize, and yes, AI companies are digitizing old, rare books. But the rationale for the book shredding doesn't exist for the old, rare books, so I would need more evidence than just "putting two-and-two together".

At the end of the day, old books with no resale value, including rare books, end up destroyed with some regularity by libraries and bookstores. While this may be an excessively generous take, at least this way the books are getting digitized before they become pulp. The real tragedy will be if the old, rare books that were digitized are never shared with the rest of us, because they were ONLY digitized to train AI, and not to actually preserve anything.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then just make it the rule that the copyright expires after 30 years or when the author dies, whichever comes last.

Why not just 30 years? Patents get a flat 20. Not that I'm arguing for 30 per se, just that I don't see what goals of copyright would be advanced more by adding an "or until death" complication.

Well imagine you write a book in your 20s or 30s and it only becomes popular after a couple of decades. The publisher gets to pocket all the money.

Somebody decides to make a movie based on your book? You get nothing at all from it... The movie bit would be problematic even for books that were reasonably popular at the time. e.g the Witcher adaption came out almost exactly 20 years after the last book, for GOT it wasn't that far from being the case as well (at least for the initial volumes). Studios would be incentivized just to wait a couple of years to avoid paying anything.

I think it could be reasonably to have a fixed limit if the rights are held by corporations, though.

Re: AI companies are shredding rare books

#410
post #250

Are the AI companies also destroying the digital scans they made?

Almost certainly not, because they need that data for model-building and rebuilding., and the storage cost is completely trivial.

So the X post is not entirely true; there still exist copies of the original
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