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Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

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Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#91
post #21

Is there a place these days for interfaces like this? I’m thinking about self contained applications like HyperCard stacks, but also FileMaker databases or even Access databases where we had interfaces linked to a database all as a self contained application. These tools with scripting languages powered a ton of small business applications. I know a lab I worked with was still using FileMaker databases up until a few…

Sure. Oracle APEX is popular. You never hear about it on HN because the target user base for low code stuff doesn't overlap with the HN set much, but it's huge. https://blogs.oracle.com/apex/organizations-ww-chose-apex In that IDC survey it's the most popular low code product, over 2 million apps and half a million developers. There's a SaaS version at apex.oracle.com with a free tier if you want to try it, and you c…

That’s what I’m looking for - low code environments for making quick applications that aren’t sexy, but that are genuinely helpful for a non-technical business. Thanks!

From that link, it seems that Salesforce and Microsoft also have offerings. That doesn’t surprise me at all. I’ve seen a bit of MS PowerApps, but generally discounted it as I thought that app should have been a proper DB. Now I’m thinking that I may have been a bit hasty.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#93
post #15

I'm afraid that HyperCard is too old for broader audience to be able to grasp how extraordinary experience it was providing. As a 6-7yo I had a collection of English words, stored with my own definitions and pronunciations, using basic building blocks, and it was as easy and intuitive as writing these words in my notebook. People used the same building primitives to make real games or stuff like accounting applicatio…

>>> And the best part - at that time it didn't looked cheap. This is one of the things that I think we've lost. Or at least that we come close to losing. I go back even further, to the text screens of mainframe computers, and text based microcomputers. Because everything was text on a screen, a kid like me could make something that "looks just like software" even if I couldn't match the sophistication of commercial s…

I discovered that we got that back in a sense.

If you task an llm with writing a CLI and have it use it, then it hides the "user interface" to a sufficient degree that you can pretty much build any kind of app/functionality in a couple days and it feels "professional".

AI as UI with a somewhat universal affordance.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#94
Engineers of a certain age, sitting around, kicking around ideas for a modern Hypercard… what a great pass-time.

Scripting language? Javascript? Python?

SDL3 for cross-platform rendering, audio…

Should the "cards" just be a subset of HTML?

Etc…

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#95
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Macintosh Plus was only affordable under university student discounts in Portugal, and hardly seen anywhere. MacBook Neo is a nothing to talk about with its 8 GB and phone motherboard, I specifically mentioned "A proper PC or Apple device, proper being the keyword, not throwaway gear under 500 €, is as expensive as always, when buying hardware with 5 to 10 years expected lifetime in a professional setting." Neo isn…

> A Macintosh Plus was only affordable ... Exactly my point. Thank you. Computers are so much more affordable now. The remainder of your post seems to be about me mentioning the Neo as an extreme case despite me ultimately ceding to your arbitrary criteria and selecting the M5 MacBook Pro as the point of comparison. Again, comparing it to a Mac Plus or a 286, or a Pentium 166. Are we even being serious here? > Neo is…

Not everyone enjoys FAANG salaries....

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#96
post #46

Wait, you are telling me people vibe created apps before LLMs? /s This is beautiful. I loved Hypercard when I was a kid. If they added networking to it, it would have been superior to web browsers! Please people, have some joy and stop taking people down a peg for vibe coding apps. Let people have fun again for once.

Being able to load stack pages in from a remote site would be both amazing and a total security nightmare. Hypercard's security model was NOT suitable for that kinda of activity. Hypercard viruses were already a problem back in the 90s, but luckily they were hard to spread so the impact was limited.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#97
post #11

I miss HyperCard and I love projects like this at a nostalgia level - but if you're going to have aspirations that this is useful today (2026) with a real project then its a complete waste of time. I want HyperCard where I can build out a stack or whatever and actually present it to people as a real and tangible thing. I love living in the past as much as anyone else, but this is a little disappointing.

A lot of these modern HyperCard reinterpretations get stuck on the black-and-white aesthetics of the original. That's cool, but it limits how broadly appealing they become. Even back when HyperCard was relevant, Apple's inability to properly introduce color as a first-class feature was what effectively killed the product. A few years ago, I think there would have been a market for a HyperCard-inspired tool that targe…

> Apple's inability to properly introduce color as a first-class feature was what effectively killed the product.

I think the bigger problem was when Apple stopped shipping the Hypercard development environment and instead shipped only Player. Also when they stopped developing or supporting the environment entirely.

They had a really cool thing going, but since it didn't contribute directly to the bottom line corporate had it killed.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#98
It's kind of a shame this uses its own, probably more powerful, language instead of HyperTalk.

HyperTalk is one of the most accessible languages for beginners I've ever seen. Sure it was primitive and had somewhat weak data organization capabilities, but if you're like 6 it's pretty incredible for your experience to be:

    1. Open a blank script
    2. Drag a field on the screen and name it "myname"
    3. Drag a button on the screen, open up it's script and see:
       on mouseUp
       end mouseUp
    4. You then enter the following two lines between those two lines:
         ask "What is your name?"
         put it into card field myname
    5. Then you go back and click the button and a dialog box appears asking your name and when you type it in an hit enter the name appears in the field you created.
That sort of directness is lost in modern development environments. The concept that the button's script lives inside of the button, and in fact everything on the page could have its own script. The page itself also has script, even the stack itself. Your code can of course call code in other objects if need be (typically at the page or stack level), and there is a whole message passing thing happening in the background. It's by far the most intuitive programming environment I've ever seen. It has the kind of immediate impact that helps to save off boredom or feeling like there's too much homework before the fun starts.

In the day people complained about the syntactic sugar in HyperTalk, but I think it was just right for the target audience. They did have more of a point about the difficulty in managing structured data, often having to store things in hidden fields referenced by line and word number or hacks like that.

The most incredible part is this was all in an application that came with the OS. It was the perfect opportunity for a bored kid to randomly come across it and discover a lifelong passion. There was nothing to install, no product to buy first--it was just there, asking to be discovered. And even if your parents weren't about to buy a reference book you could open up other stacks and start reading the code to learn the language. Because most scripts were small and self contained (remember that they were stored at the widget level) this was a legitimate way to understand the basic syntax and keywords.

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#99

It's kind of a shame this uses its own, probably more powerful, language instead of HyperTalk. HyperTalk is one of the most accessible languages for beginners I've ever seen. Sure it was primitive and had somewhat weak data organization capabilities, but if you're like 6 it's pretty incredible for your experience to be: 1. Open a blank script 2. Drag a field on the screen and name it "myname" 3. Drag a button on the…

In Decker, most of this example would be similar. The button's default script template would be:

    on click do
    
    end
And filling it in with an equivalent script would be something like:

    on click do
     myname.text:alert["What is your name?" "string"]
    end
There is slightly more "programming-language-like" punctuation to Lil than HyperTalk, but simple examples are still simple, and in my opinion having first-class collections (lists, dictionaries, tables) and a richer set of APL-like operators makes Lil scale up much better to more complex programs. As a child I recall struggling tremendously with HyperTalk's "almost-english" structure; it made scripts easy enough to read and understand, but provided very little help when it came to writing new scripts.

Decker has a similar Widget -> Card -> Deck event bubbling hierarchy to HyperCard, and in my opinion retains much of the same directness and simplicity for simple applications. The differences in approach won't please everyone, but they are all carefully considered, and have been refined over time based on feedback from the user community. Decker is a living, growing platform!

Re: Decker, a platform that builds on the legacy of Hypercard and classic macOS

#100
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the original Myst was created using HyperCard... which in and of itself is a crazy app with a huge impact on gaming in general.

Cyan shipped at least one Hypercard game, before Myst. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manhole

All of Cyan's games were in Hypercard up to Myst. (Cosmic Osmo and Spelunx were the other two.)

Myst ran in Hypercard in early Mac releases but switched to a cross-platform runtime Broderbund built to sell Myst on Windows CDs (and consoles and more).

Riven was also majority designed/prototyped in Hypercard as a development platform, but more directly targeted from the beginning that same runtime Broderbund built for running Myst cross-platform.

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