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The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

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Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#131

Post by antonvs »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #120
defrost wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of possible interest, Ballard's The Atrocity Exhibition is themed abut mass media intrusion into private mind spaces, Carey's Bliss about an ad exec whose heart stops, re-awakening convinced he is in hell (but merely life with the scales fallen from his eyes). Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that.

> Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that. Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I view HN as a forum dedicated to the technology professions, and as such, it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. We (those in the technology profession) have no union through which we can…

> it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work.

The HN guidelines follow the approach which Martin Luther King Jr. criticized:

> [the] moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice

Politeness is considered more important than holding people to account. This acts as a strong protection of the status quo, i.e. it’s fundamentally conservative.

I’ve been observing another institution which follows that approach: the US Congress and Senate. It hasn’t been working out so well.

(Side note: I had to wait a few hours to be allowed to post this comment; how many comments are abandoned for that reason, or result in people going elsewhere, leaving this site to its self-reinforcing prejudices. It’s not the discourse encourager that some people imagine it is.)

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#133

Post by Ekaros »

inigyou wrote: post #77
cannonpr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that report was discontinued after relatively proven statistical gaming and interference by several countries, doesn’t exist post 2020. Post 2020 SPICE+ launched making registration trivially fast. However really the trick isn’t creating and closing companies, it’s that the fact majority of reporting that would catch scam companies like these just get ignored and gather small civil penalties payable years later or…

What's the scam? Generally a country's governance system wouldn't get involved in a dispute this trivial between a foreign company and an individual.

Honestly if company size of Amazon is not doing their due diligence that is their own fault. It is not that big of ask for them to spend say a day or week evaluating these things.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#134

Post by cannonpr »

manquer wrote: post #94
cannonpr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that report was discontinued after relatively proven statistical gaming and interference by several countries, doesn’t exist post 2020. Post 2020 SPICE+ launched making registration trivially fast. However really the trick isn’t creating and closing companies, it’s that the fact majority of reporting that would catch scam companies like these just get ignored and gather small civil penalties payable years later or…

The world bank is best quality source I could find, if you know a better source or any fact contradicting the claim India is high friction for general ease of business, that would be welcome.

Look up the third edition B-READY once it drops this year, that should be the best one then.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#135

Post by cannonpr »

inigyou wrote: post #77
cannonpr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that report was discontinued after relatively proven statistical gaming and interference by several countries, doesn’t exist post 2020. Post 2020 SPICE+ launched making registration trivially fast. However really the trick isn’t creating and closing companies, it’s that the fact majority of reporting that would catch scam companies like these just get ignored and gather small civil penalties payable years later or…

What's the scam? Generally a country's governance system wouldn't get involved in a dispute this trivial between a foreign company and an individual.

I didn’t make any claims towards spesific scams, just a lack of effective mechanisms to hold companies accountable, a lot of countries governance systems do indeed have audits and mechanisms to address companies making large numbers of individuals unhappy or where large number of individuals feel they are being treated unfairly.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#136

Post by chihuahua »

cobzilla wrote: post #44

This article is about the mechanics, but the title implies this is unethical. Why is this practice considered unethical?

Using stolen credit cards, or chargebacks, to buy something, and then resell that thing, for profit.

"Why is this practice considered unethical?"

Next week: Shoplifting batteries and laundry detergent, and reselling it on Ebay. "Why is this practice considered unethical?"

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#137

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

antonvs wrote: post #131
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that. Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I view HN as a forum dedicated to the technology professions, and as such, it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. We (those in the technology profession) have no union through which we can…

> it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. The HN guidelines follow the approach which Martin Luther King Jr. criticized: > [the] moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice Politeness is considered mor…

I also am a believer in many of MLK’s more “radical” messages, and find the modern whitewashing of his messaging to be deeply representative of much of America’s core moral failings, especially as it occurs in our education system.

I’m glad you brought it up here. Just because someone speaks well, intelligently, pleasantly, or even civilly doesn’t mean their message is righteous or just. Conversely, just because someone creates discomfort or says something impolite doesn’t mean their message can be disregarded. In fact, it’s those that are in power that often decide what or what is not impolite, and even speaking truth or justice to power in the first place can be labeled as impolite. George Carlin’s primary message as a comedian was essentially that.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#138

Post by chihuahua »

jonfromsf wrote: post #48
altmanaltman wrote: post #15

"Token reseller market" is a fancy way of saying credit card fraud. If someone stole xboxs from stores using stolen credit cards and then sold them at 10% of their price, at what point is it a "resller market" and not "criminal enterpirse"?

These aren't stolen credit cards. This hack works by maxing out subscription limits of the Anthropic/OpenAI plans, so you never pay additional API fees. It's fraud but not theft.

The article mentions that stolen credit cards are being used to buy some of the tokens. Also credit card chargebacks (pay for tokens with CC, resell tokens, then do a chargeback.)

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#139

Post by Cider9986 »

antonvs wrote: post #131
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that. Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I view HN as a forum dedicated to the technology professions, and as such, it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. We (those in the technology profession) have no union through which we can…

> it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. The HN guidelines follow the approach which Martin Luther King Jr. criticized: > [the] moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice Politeness is considered mor…

It's not hard to disagree politely. People do it all the time.

The thing you are missing is that discourse is terrible when people are rude. It's full of name calling, tone policing and moves away from the topic.

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