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French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

france24.com

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Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#251

Post by Earw0rm »

sandworm101 wrote: post #226
markdown wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pine forests have been there for centuries, so it being pine is no explanation at all for why it's burning so badly now .

Decades ago i was a big wall rock climber. We would often see old photos of mountains and cliffs and remark "where are the trees?" Areas we knew to be covered in forrest were bare only a century ago. This wasnt logging (climbing areas are too rugged to be logged bare.) There were just fewer trees. The general assumption was CO2. The combination of longer growing seasons and more plant food (co2) may mean there are si…

The timing is curious to me. Atmospheric CO2 didn't really start picking up bigtime until 1970, and trees, even fast growing pines, take decades to grow.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#252

Post by haaz »

mctaylor wrote: post #227
tirant wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from the Mediterranean region and locally we know many explanations for that. Many of those pine forests are relatively new. Pine trees burn frequently, around every 20-30 years. In the past they used to be mixed with many other original trees, but during the recent century reforestation, pines were planted as the single tree species, making fires more prone to happen and more easily to spread. In the past, wa…

I love how four comments down there is someone posting: "You’re both right. However OPs post is more useful than yours. By now, everyone knows about climate change. But I assume most didn’t know the fact about the pine trees in this area. Nowadays it’s much more about how we deal with climate change and not so much about the fact that there is human made climate change" Thank you for proving that there are, in fact,…

[flagged]

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#253

Post by Earw0rm »

tirant wrote: post #237
reco98gg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason the forest is burning is global warming. There were 3 punishing heatwaves before the fire, it was just a matter of time. A part of the Fontainebleau forest, much more north, no pine trees, went in smoke earlier. Forests are burning near Madrid. It may make some people feel better to think that it is an isolated, local problem, but unfortunately global warming is the main culprit and we at least need t…

Blaming everything on global warming is extremely dangerous. It fails to address many other reasons why we are experiencing fires and creates an easy to blame enemy and a sensation that there's nothing we can do. We should really go way deeper than just blaming everything on an increase of temperatures, which nevertheless is actually happening. We, locals, have been warning already for decades of the increase of fire…

Sheep and slow growing trees of course don't get along well, you have to choose one or the other at least while the trees establish, which for oaks is measured in decades.

In Wales and Ireland we have the opposite problem, the sheep strip everything bare, the old trees die and the forests cannot regenerate.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#254

Post by Earw0rm »

ifwinterco wrote: post #216
reco98gg wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason the forest is burning is global warming. There were 3 punishing heatwaves before the fire, it was just a matter of time. A part of the Fontainebleau forest, much more north, no pine trees, went in smoke earlier. Forests are burning near Madrid. It may make some people feel better to think that it is an isolated, local problem, but unfortunately global warming is the main culprit and we at least need t…

There’s also a significant amount of pretty sudden local warning in the North Atlantic region because of the sudden removal of sulphur emissions from ships a few years ago (thanks, IMO…). And on top of that it’s El Niño. Edit: Before anyone misconstrues what I'm saying: no, I'm not denying global warming. I'm just saying this is why this summer in particular was always likely to be a hot one in Europe. And going forw…

The current El Niño hasn't really had time to affect NW Europe yet, there's quite some lag there AIUI.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#255

Post by jimnotgym »

apelapan wrote: post #231
Ma8ee wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? Capitalism is the current system, and the one that is actively thwarting efforts to mitigate the disaster. I don't see how the existence of other systems that would be equally bad or worse is relevant.

Wealth is a sharper answer than capitalism, even though it is an overlapping one. To manage forrests and and other agriculture in the traditional way, we need extreme amounts of extreme poverty. We need millions and millions of people who are happy to spend 14 hours per day collecting sticks and tending sheep in the woods, in exchange for nothing more than a bowl of porridge. And they need to this every day all their…

I would happily live in the forest and keep a subsistence holding whilst managing the forest. Just give me minimum wage, a small startup grant, a couple of hundred acres of forest and freedom from property taxes.... I'll bundle all the sticks up for kindling. I'll create firebreaks, increase diversity. Genuine offer

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#256

Post by imp0cat »

morkalork wrote: post #53
msk-lywenn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s in French but this crowd sourced website updates quite quickly : https://feuxdeforet.fr/gironde-33/saumos-22-07-2026-4367/

Needs a smoke layer like https://firesmoke.ca/forecasts/current/

https://www.windy.com/-Menu/menu?camsEu,pm2p5,50.069,14.395,...

More layers -> PM2.5 is very telling.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#257

Post by jimnotgym »

mahkeiro wrote: post #229
applepearlime wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you happen to know if firebreaks or fuelbreaks are used in some of these forests? Are they seen as effective? Are they costly to set up? From what I saw online, there are indications that firebreaks do not always work, for instance when embers fly over long distances, carried by the wind, over firebreaks, and start fires on the other side. But I would guess that firebreaks like cleared areas, for instance between…

They are firebreaks everywhere in this forest, you can see them from satellite images, but the fire can jump, and it's mainly used as a defense line by firefighters. I was in this forest 2 weeks ago and the ground which is layered with pine needles was so dry that it was just a question of time.

Do you not just make them much wider?

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#258

Post by _ph_ »

senderista wrote: post #85

I will be surprised if the climate crisis doesn’t eventually escalate to the point where basically everyone agrees that geoengineering of some kind is worth the risk.

Eventually it might. We don't have any good ideas about what would help without things getting much worse.

What we do need now is finally the determination to fight climate change. We have all the tools at our disposal to eliminate any fossil fuel burning within some years. We should finally take this as the priority it should be.

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#259

Post by ludicrousdispla »

nianderwallace wrote: post #97
verzali wrote: post #2

The situation in Bordeaux right now feels close to apocalyptic. I left yesterday. Two hundred thousand people are evacuated, hundreds of homes destroyed, and the fire about 10 miles from the edge of the city.

These train workers in northern Ontario had an intense view of a wildfire up close. I would have freaked out. They're acting like there's a cute animal on tracks. see https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/train-cab-wildfir... [edit] other video links in case the first link isn't viewable outside Canada. see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwc16INKNq0 or https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qAerRqQQHAM

"ah, we're encased in flames here, eh?"

Re: French firefighters face 'pyrocumulonimbus' for first time

#260

Post by mytailorisrich »

reco98gg wrote: post #164
superfrank wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the person you're responding to was trying to deny global warming being a factor. I think they're just explaining why this fire is so bad compared to other fires we have seen in France before. I know global warming plays a major role in this, but I still found it interesting to know why this fire seems so bad.

You may be absolutely right about the OP, I cannot know. Still, I believe it is important to highlight the elephant in the room first. For example to your point: "I still found it interesting to kmow why this fire seems so bad compared to [...] before", I think it is important to state: "because global warming is getting worse over time". Not because pine trees, which have been around for a long time, and have never…

The elephant in the room is that many of those fires are criminal and that the French government has arbitrated budget restrictions against investing in fire-fighting equipment, especially planes.

It so happens that the current fire near Bordeaux is roughy in the same area as the historic fire of 1949 in which 82 people died (and currently still smaller, hopefully it will stay that way) [1], as someone else already mentioned.

Wildfires in Fontainebleau are not new, either, even if this year's one it is historically large. First laws against fires in the in forest and obligation of inhabitants to help in case of fire date from the 14th century [2].

Yes warming trends do not help and increase risk (hence need to invest in equipment and prevention) but there is also fabricated drama and lack of perspective, which are unfortunately how everything is reported nowadays.

[1] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incendie_de_1949_dans_la_for%C...

[2] https://www.fontainebleau-photo.fr/2013/08/les-incendies-de-...

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