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The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

vectoral.com

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Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#121

Post by defrost »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #120
defrost wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of possible interest, Ballard's The Atrocity Exhibition is themed abut mass media intrusion into private mind spaces, Carey's Bliss about an ad exec whose heart stops, re-awakening convinced he is in hell (but merely life with the scales fallen from his eyes). Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that.

> Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that. Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I view HN as a forum dedicated to the technology professions, and as such, it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. We (those in the technology profession) have no union through which we can…

> Mmm, this I disagree with particularly.

I'd suggest taking that up with Paul Graham, @dang, and @tomhow - they would respond that curious conversation about second order effects is what they seek - sans the direct personal attacks seeking to directly shame another person for their choices.

> How do you feel about the moral dilemma of working for a weapons manufacturer?

Weapons, of course, cut both ways; Ukraine is pushing back against an aggressor by using weapons, long range sensing, passive radar, etc.

> Every year that passes it becomes more important that technologists are aware of the ethical implications of their work

Agreed - that doesn't imply you should call perceived less enlightened others names or champion throwing them in the stocks .. such things rarely convert and often harden resistance.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#122

Post by ifwinterco »

miki123211 wrote: post #97
ifwinterco wrote: post #55

It's the same fundamental problem as "ticket touting" for popular events - if you sell something that's in demand at a price that's far lower than the clearing price of the market, you're creating a juicy arbitrage opportunity that sooner or later somebody is going to try and exploit

Not necessarily. What OpenAI and Anthropic are selling — a flat-rate subscription with both 5-hour and weekly rate limits — is a bit like an all-you-can-eat buffet. They expect some customers to generate more in costs than they bring in revenue, just like some people at the all-you-can-eat buffet eat more than they pay for, but by the law of large numbers, the mean cost per customer comes out to something the labs ar…

At the end of the day they're selling dollars for 10c provided you buy them in a specific way (quotas a few times a day, and you have to not be a business).

Incredibly obvious solution to this problem: become a middleman who buys spare tokens from people who don't need them but can buy them for 10c, and sell them to the people who get charged a full dollar.

Spread is huge, so you can make a very nice profit for yourself and still make it very worthwhile for the other two parties

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#124

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

defrost wrote: post #121
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such things are still not reason to dis other HN commentators - there's always reddit for that. Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I view HN as a forum dedicated to the technology professions, and as such, it’s an extremely appropriate place to shame those in the profession who refuse to consider the second-order effects of their work. We (those in the technology profession) have no union through which we can…

> Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I'd suggest taking that up with Paul Graham, @dang, and @tomhow - they would respond that curious conversation about second order effects is what they seek - sans the direct personal attacks seeking to directly shame another person for their choices. > How do you feel about the moral dilemma of working for a weapons manufacturer? Weapons, of course, cut both ways; Ukraine is…

We can argue about whether the OP should have found a more elegant way to call out the commenter he was responding to, of course. But I stand my ground firm that this industry needs an extreme dose of self-reflection injected directly to its heart, and shame seems to be an effective medium available to us as peer technologists. There are different methods of shaming, of course, but ideally those who are currently earning money from unethical sources should feel ashamed. Furthermore, whether someone does feel ashamed because of what someone commented should not be a criteria for whether a comment is a “personal attack”.

Humans use shame to correct antisocial behavior, and humans feel shame in order to avoid antisocial behavior. The technology professions are rife with antisocial behavior. Our leaders are chosen and their behavior is optimized as antisocial, for shareholder (and personal) short-term growth.

> Weapons, of course, cut both ways; Ukraine is pushing back against an aggressor by using weapons, long range sensing, passive radar, etc.

This is an entirely different subject that I don’t think we should get sidetracked by. I’ll just recommend Die Physiker (or one of its translations) as a fun starting point for radicalization against the argument you presented.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#125

Post by 21asdffdsa12 »

defrost wrote: post #111
weregiraffe wrote: post #110

[flagged]

and when did you stop beating your wife? > is the pay good enough to justify the atrocities you help to perpetrate? C'mon, not every ad jockey is flogging fossil fuels, and even some that do repent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcrekESgFQI * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Carey_(novelist)

infinite_spin - you are dead. Which is quite the spin for an advertiser- one could say even infinite_spin

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#127

Post by defrost »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #124
defrost wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mmm, this I disagree with particularly. I'd suggest taking that up with Paul Graham, @dang, and @tomhow - they would respond that curious conversation about second order effects is what they seek - sans the direct personal attacks seeking to directly shame another person for their choices. > How do you feel about the moral dilemma of working for a weapons manufacturer? Weapons, of course, cut both ways; Ukraine is…

We can argue about whether the OP should have found a more elegant way to call out the commenter he was responding to, of course. But I stand my ground firm that this industry needs an extreme dose of self-reflection injected directly to its heart, and shame seems to be an effective medium available to us as peer technologists. There are different methods of shaming, of course, but ideally those who are currently ear…

> as a fun starting point for radicalization against the argument you presented

As a gentle reminder, it was yourself that raised weapons as a moral dilemma, I responded with no argument other than a plain observation.

> but ideally those who are currently earning money from unethical sources should feel ashamed

More often they likely sleep deeply on sheets of insanely high thread count, shame only goes so far to effect change.

> I’ll just recommend Die Physiker

If I recall correctly that came up when I had a long discussion with Mark Oliphant in the late 1970s, William Tutte had a few books of his own to recommend on similar themes not long after.

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#128

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

defrost wrote: post #127
datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can argue about whether the OP should have found a more elegant way to call out the commenter he was responding to, of course. But I stand my ground firm that this industry needs an extreme dose of self-reflection injected directly to its heart, and shame seems to be an effective medium available to us as peer technologists. There are different methods of shaming, of course, but ideally those who are currently ear…

> as a fun starting point for radicalization against the argument you presented As a gentle reminder, it was yourself that raised weapons as a moral dilemma, I responded with no argument other than a plain observation. > but ideally those who are currently earning money from unethical sources should feel ashamed More often they likely sleep deeply on sheets of insanely high thread count, shame only goes so far to eff…

> More often they likely sleep deeply on sheets of insanely high thread count, shame only goes so far to effect change.

Do you have alternative suggestions, or will you stick to simply discouraging the use of shame on this forum?

Re: The relay market powering token resellers and fraud

#129

Post by defrost »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #128
defrost wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as a fun starting point for radicalization against the argument you presented As a gentle reminder, it was yourself that raised weapons as a moral dilemma, I responded with no argument other than a plain observation. > but ideally those who are currently earning money from unethical sources should feel ashamed More often they likely sleep deeply on sheets of insanely high thread count, shame only goes so far to eff…

> More often they likely sleep deeply on sheets of insanely high thread count, shame only goes so far to effect change. Do you have alternative suggestions, or will you stick to simply discouraging the use of shame on this forum?

I'm pretty happy abiding by the spirit of this forum.

There are many forums that allow and even encourage attacks on others.

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