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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#411

Post by microtonal »

culi wrote: post #342
_kidlike wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this on a Xiaomi, maybe 10 years ago? Very cool feature! I hope they still do it. I think the wipe feature is also very cool, but not used in this way.

Fascinating. It seems the feature is called "Second Space" https://www.mi.com/global/support/faq/details/KA-492586/

Profiles are a standard Android feature, nothing special to Xiaomi. GrapheneOS even extends and improves them in a lot of ways.

It's just not possible to hide them in a good way that would faze knowledgeable people or software.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#412

Post by datsci_est_2015 »

sfRattan wrote: post #31
dathinab wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the funny part is he didn't enter the pin he gave it to them and they entered it..., not sure if it makes any difference but there is a certain irony to it that it was the non warrant based search actions (which might be legal at the border) which lead to the erasure of data

Edit for the confused and misinformed: 18 USC 1001. Also, is ≠ ought. Lying to a federal officer is a crime, IIRC, and if the lie results in destruction of evidence, the person who told the lie is probably accountable for both crimes. This isn't a lie with plausible deniability: you have to set a duress PIN, understanding what it does, and then communicate that PIN instead of the unlock PIN. A duress PIN to wipe the…

> It exists for when compromising the device could get people the owner cares about killed or disappeared and the owner considers their own liability, disappearance, or death a preferable outcome.

Devil’s advocate, it sounds like the accused could be part of some mutual aid networks who could be helping people who are vulnerable against the actions of the current government. People who may die if they’re deported, or returned to their family (gay or trans youth). This person may literally have saved lives by not handing over their phonebook and messages.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#413

Post by ifwinterco »

IshKebab wrote: post #402
schoen wrote: post #383

I co-wrote a border search guide for EFF some years ago. I was very interested in finding clever technical approaches but I later ended up feeling that I hadn't given enough thought to the overall threat model questions (even though the guide did address them, perhaps even somewhat usefully). The big picture problem is that the agents performing the searches have an enormous amount of power in terms of potentially se…

So I guess what you really want is a duress PIN that loads into a fake innocent profile.

Yes I thought this was the standard solution?

People have been doing this since way back in the TrueCrypt days - IIRC you could configure it to run a whole fake version of Windows if you wanted without easily revealing your actual main volume.

Most hardware crypto wallets also have a "duress wallet" feature where you keep a low balance for the same reason.

Wiping is obviously extremely suspicious and asking for trouble

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#415

Post by il-b »

rock_artist wrote: post #236

For non-graphene users (eg. Boring iPhone people like me). So there’s a feature called Duress PIN which as explained through some comments means you put a different pin which intentionally wipes the phone. It’s not auto wipe or wipe after several failed attempts but intentional wipe of device. (Worth explanation as the current title nor the article doesn't easily explain this was made by the US citizen providing the…

It zeroes out the vault where the volume key is stored.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#416

Post by hahahaa »

halestock wrote: post #79
cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

A lot of engineer types forget that the law is not code, and reductionist arguments almost never actually work in practice because it's a human interpreting the law.

Does anyone think law is computer code? I mean any courtroom drama (even if far fetched) shows it is not.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#417

Post by microtonal »

MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #405

Wouldn't it be better from a legal standpoint to power the phone off and refuse to give your pin in such cases? A no-pin cold boot is pretty hard to recover data from with GrapheneOS.

Most likely, at least you are not doing something irreversible. In all these cases, the best answer is "ask a lawyer". Before wiping a device in possession of law enforcement you definitely want to ask a lawyer.

I realize that in this case the person repeatedly asked for a lawyer, but if you are in a borderline authoritarian state, all bets are off.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#419

Post by hahahaa »

ndiddy wrote: post #217
halestock wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of engineer types forget that the law is not code, and reductionist arguments almost never actually work in practice because it's a human interpreting the law.

For one example of this, around 10 years ago there was a company called Aereo that tried to act as a "cloud television provider". The idea was that they had thousands of tiny antennas hooked up to servers in a warehouse, and they would lease an antenna to each subscriber. This gave an experience similar to cable TV but without Aereo having to pay broadcasters cable transmission fees. The major broadcasters sued Aereo…

This sort of legal workaround can work (see Uber) though.

Uber avoided medallions.

I guess that proves law is not code!

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#420

Post by ozim »

Sammi wrote: post #410
IshKebab wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess what you really want is a duress PIN that loads into a fake innocent profile.

Or that just selectively wipes only stuff you have marked for deletion. That way the profile stays up to date and believable.

Problem is „are you sure you marked for deletion all the correct things” because you could have already deleted it before traveling or moved to other device you don’t travel with.

Selection on border control might be arbitrary, they can hold you or send you back over a photo or something you wouldn’t think should be a problem.

Ideally you would like to have all wiped just in case but then you really stand out…

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