Live data from Hacker News

US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

techspot.com

351–360 of 1001 posts

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#351

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

If it’s a malicious prosecution by the country/state then Jury is your best best over a Judge.

There is a reason that Elon Musks companies and others put a ‘you agree to not have a jury trial…’ clause in their terms as Judges are easier to influence - when a legal case is filed it’s allocated to a judge and certain cases will go strategically to a Judges with certain bias

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#352
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is as it should be.

no way! it should be about 50% conviction rate so that juries dont go in with non-evidence that the case is good because the feds thought it should go to court

So prosecutors should bring you to court even if they think there isn’t evidence that you are guilty just to make the conviction rate go down? Today they would let you walk but you would want them to take you to court for a crime the prosecutor don’t even think there is enough evidence?

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

> Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90% Prosecutors pick their cases. Defense doesn't. The cases that aren't 90%+ sure aren't charged.

Yes.

Prosecutors will often lower charges to ones where it can be tried without a jury too

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#354
If this happened in an EU country you'd all be wetting yourselves, but for some reason the rooms different today. The professional advice we are given traveling to the US is back up you phone, wipe it, travel and restore once you are comfortable. Sad state of affairs guys

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Evidence" has never been limited to the subject of a warrant. Destruction of evidence statutes typically include material that is subject to a police investigation.

But are not investigations typically under some reasonable suspicion that a crime had occurred?

Reasonable suspicion is required for a terry stop but that does not apply at a border crossing. Everyone can be stopped and questioned and searched at a border crossing.

An ”investigation” is just a fancy word that broadly describes the type of information collection that law enforcement does. Yes, it is typically about things they think are crimes. Because that’s their job. But there’s not some legal hurdle they have to pass here, the word describes their work.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#357
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Evidence" has never been limited to the subject of a warrant. Destruction of evidence statutes typically include material that is subject to a police investigation.

they of course arent police and arent investigating anything instead they are harassing

It is illegal to destroy evidence even if you weren’t guilty of the crime that was allegedly being investigated.

If someone accuses you of a crime, committing a different crime is probably not a good move, in any situation.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#358
By raising the profile of airport seizures all it means is that serious criminals will wipe their devices prior to travelling and restore afterwards/buy a new device for travel.

The powers of investigators special rights and abilities rely on them being used very rarely. Last thing the terrorism investigators want is media coverage exposing their tactics.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#359

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

A lot of engineer types forget that the law is not code, and reductionist arguments almost never actually work in practice because it's a human interpreting the law.

[deleted]

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#360

If your threat model means you can’t afford for border security to view your device, wipe the damn thing yourself before crossing the border and restore it from an encrypted online backup on the other side. You’re just carrying a blank phone that you intend to set up and use later, and they can’t force you to install your backup onto a phone. Now, this is sus as hell, and you’ll probably draw all kinds of extra atten…

What is sus as hell is the US government. It is incredible how people here are accepting things that was outrageous a few years back.
Post reply on HN