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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#241

Post by rafram »

istjohn wrote: post #161

Perhaps a way to avoid this would be to have the duress pin trigger not a device wipe, but a device encryption with a long, pre-set key that you would store in a safe place when setting up the duress pin. Then you haven't destroyed the evidence, but the data is irretrievable without your cooperation. Also, if you don't actually have the key saved, it would in fact be destroyed, but the prosecutor would have to prove…

The entire point of modern encryption is that the encrypted data should be indistinguishable from noise until you have the key in its entirety. Turning your data into random noise (whether or not there’s a secret code somewhere that can reverse the process) is destruction.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#242

Post by vkou »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #182
Exoristos wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're begging OP's question.

How so? OP is strongly implying that the 90% success rate for prosecutors is due to the courts being stacked against the defense. IMO that is where the logical fallacy is. Since prosecutors have wide latitude in deciding which cases to charge in the first place, it is very possible that the high success rate is due to prosecutors only charging cases where the accused actually committed the crimes being charged. Indee…

The courts are stacked against the defense, but that statistic in itself is not proof of it.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#243

Post by f-serif »

rock_artist wrote: post #236

For non-graphene users (eg. Boring iPhone people like me). So there’s a feature called Duress PIN which as explained through some comments means you put a different pin which intentionally wipes the phone. It’s not auto wipe or wipe after several failed attempts but intentional wipe of device. (Worth explanation as the current title nor the article doesn't easily explain this was made by the US citizen providing the…

PIN to wipe seems suspicious. How about a PIN where it login to a patriotic profile and phone looks like normal android.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#244

Post by wraptile »

sire-vc wrote: post #226

To everyone who thinks this is somehow a violation of rights: if you were being questioned by border officers, and were asked 'Sir could you please open your suitcase', and you pressed a button that caused it to burst into flames, there isn't a country in the entire world that wouldn't arrest you on the spot. Why would 'wipe a phone when officer requests it opened' be treated any differently? Suspicious behaviour is…

material =/= information.

Are we supposed to live in a world where if I'm crossing a border I must give access to all of my information? That's absurd and more equivalent to a full brain/memory scan than a suitcase search from your example. This is dystopian in every sense of the word.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#245

Post by vkou »

mmooss wrote: post #177
wand3r wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is something more people really need to take to heart. As Americans are seeing, a lot of rules are unenforceable and really came down to norms and pressure. I have been thinking about this a lot over the last few years and it is roughly encapsulated in this tweet I saw a while back. When I was a kid I wanted to be a police officer because I wouldn't have to follow any laws or rules. Then I got a little bit…

> This has always been true and there has never really been perfect justice. You raise the standard for justice to perfection. There also has never been perfect corruption and anarchy. > Ultimately, power and violence have always superseded the law. That's like saying night has always superceded day. Everyone recognizes that recent years have been very unusual or unique in US history. That means for the great bulk of…

The law wasn't in the state that you ascribe to it for the other 99% of its history if you were, say, African-American. Other less-extremely obvious examples also abound.

Liberal democracy with sometimes-fair application of it is the aberration.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#246

Post by [deleted] »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #136
godwinson__4-8 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"U.S. law though is highly non-autistic" hilarious but also another point to emphasize is how truly depressing American courts often are. Take the right to a jury. It sounds noble in theory. But when they say judged by your peers they don't mean your actual peers. It's people who couldn't get out of jury duty. Prosecutors have high success rates. Federal prosecutor success rate is over > 90%. Studies of jury psycholo…

Is the high success rate because they are good at winning or good at picking winning cases? Does that 90% include plea bargains?

[deleted]

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#247

Post by sandworm101 »

cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

He should have backed up the phone before travelling then wiped the phone to an innocuous state before getting on the plane.

Want to see a really confused border agent? Travel without a phone. Fedex your phone to your hotel/home. Read a book on the plane. The concept that someone doesn't have a phone/computer drives cops insane.

One of the wikileaks crew pulled this one in NY. Several agencies were a set to grab his devices and detain him until he unlocked them ... But all he had in his carry-on was a magazine. His devices had been wiped and sent by mail. He re-imaged them only once he was home and safe. No devices to unlock, no reason to detain him.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#248

Post by JauntyHatAngle »

ludston wrote: post #179
mikeweiss wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's insulting

It is, and autism is just the swap-in vulnerable minority of the day that is socially acceptable to be the butt of the joke. If you don't understand what I mean, swap out "autistic" for "retarded" and the joke still functions, but a lot more people will be offended by it. I still laughed though.

I don't think that makes sense.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall point, but autistic in that comment is attempting to capture that "literal rhetoric but socially unaware" style of argument people can have when they argue a point too black and white.

"Retarded" does not imply this

I would say the problem with the comment is more in line with how OCD or adhd is used, improperly. Like despite autism being a spectrum with traits that can't be reduced to that one stereotype.

It's being used to invoke a stereotype of neurodivergence. Not as a stand in for general stupidity.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#249

Post by somenameforme »

cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

I think you're conflating two very different things. You're completely right that the government can make pretty much whatever they want illegal, but things are legal unless expressly made illegal. Erasing your phone wouldn't be illegal because it implies guilt, but because of obstruction/destruction laws explicitly criminalize such things.

The whole case is going to come down to the nuanced and often contradictory interpretations of border law exceptions. I also don't agree that these sort of protections are for e.g. robbers, because of the criminal underground's $5 in-person data hacking tool. [1]

[1] - https://xkcd.com/538/

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