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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#191

Post by RunSet »

samtheprogram wrote: post #113
GolfPopper wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Investigation" is a pretty generous way to label "some thugs working for an authoritarian state want to look for incriminating stuff - including criticism or mockery of them or their leader - on your communications device". Whatever the American legal system may say, a couple of thugs with no warrant conducting searches and seizures of data is a blatant violation of the Constitution's intent. This is the sort of beh…

Calling border patrol "thugs" doesn't really bolster your argument to anyone except people who already agree with you.

I find that choice of words more likely to cause people who already disagree with them to fixate on it rather than the substance of their comment.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#192

Post by Telaneo »

cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

Heck, it could be unconstitutional for the government to make X illegal, but if the courts say 'no actually it isn't', or it never actually gets to that point, then it doesn't really matter much, does it? The text of the law could be simple and straightforward, and a layman's reading of that text could be valid, but all the government or courts needs to do is to find some moon logic to make what they need happen, and unless enough people disagree, then that's all there is to it. The law, in many ways, for better or worse, is just a piece of paper.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#193

Post by vips7L »

sumeno wrote: post #115
Frost1x wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been arguing against some LLMs about this point for a good hour and there’s a whole lot of linking intent to action where you can be liable if a court can prove it. Not that an LLM is legal gold but it’s the best thing I have to pass ideas around with. The entire situation is sort of nonsensical and boils down to lots of minutia in law that no normal person would know about. For example having normal widely know…

> I’ve been arguing against some LLMs about this point for a good hour One of the most depressing things I've read on here

Welcome to moltnews. Everyone here is addicted.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#194

Post by camel_gopher »

cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

Mens rea

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#195

Post by LPisGood »

> federal agents had already circulated his name and photo internally, saying he was under investigation for "suspected terrorism activities" because of his alleged association with the movement against Cop City.

This is practically the only thing I care about here and there are almost no details. What was his alleged involvement? How many others were targeted?

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#196

Post by mullingitover »

kube-system wrote: post #153
mullingitover wrote: post #112

Seems like they’re going to have a struggle proving intent. “I was stressed out and afraid and I got the passwords mixed up” would be the magic words I’d hear as a juror and I wouldn’t be able to vote to convict.

If you get a jury who doesn't think that "strange self-destructing phone" isn't a criminal's tool to begin with. Which I'd guess is probably not likely.

The defense has a chance to educate the jury about it in a trial, and given how widely CBP/DHS is distrusted in 2026 it’s not difficult to see at least one juror having reasonable doubt.

Bonus for the defense: whatever is left of the DOJ, it’s mainly cranks, cronies, and people who can’t find work elsewhere.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#197

Post by Telaneo »

wand3r wrote: post #111
pennomi wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all of those arguments are entirely academic, and subject to change depending on economic status, skin color, or nationality. Law is effectively a weak gentleman’s agreement we tolerate because the alternative is violence. (Well, law is enforced with violence too, I suppose.)

Yes, this is something more people really need to take to heart. As Americans are seeing, a lot of rules are unenforceable and really came down to norms and pressure. I have been thinking about this a lot over the last few years and it is roughly encapsulated in this tweet I saw a while back. When I was a kid I wanted to be a police officer because I wouldn't have to follow any laws or rules. Then I got a little bit…

> When I was a kid I wanted to be a police officer because I wouldn't have to follow any laws or rules. Then I got a little bit older and realized that wasn't how being a police officer actually worked in practice. Then, I got a little bit older than that, and realized that it actually does work like that.

I'm imagining that IQ bell curve meme, just with you at different ages.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#198

Post by itake »

FireBeyond wrote: post #175
wildfireday2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other things that CBP does not need a warrant to search or seize anything and everything at a border. Everything is subject to search at the border. To make a seizure all that is needed is reasonable cause that customs law/regs were violated. And there are specific federal laws relating to thwarting such seizures. If you don’t want something searched do not bring it across the US border. There is very clear con…

> To make a seizure all that is needed is reasonable cause that customs law/regs were violated. What would be the reasonable suspicion that a USC bringing their personal phone on a trip with them would be a customs violation? That doesn't sound at all reasonable. In fact, the only "suspicion" they had was that he was someone who didn't like LE or Trump which is still not a crime, nor a customs violation.

No idea if its true, but one rumor mentioned was he was suspected of possessing CSAM

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#199

Post by BLKNSLVR »

Freedom2 wrote: post #174
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's my position. If you're paranoid enough to be using GrapheneOS, why would you take it to an airport in the US of all places? I bought a second hand iPhone for overseas trips, which my daughter promptly stole because she wanted an iPhone, but then i got her old android phone, which was LineageOS-compatible, so that became my travel phone.

[flagged]

Welcome to 2026, you have a lot to catch up on. Maybe sit down for this.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#200

Post by lokar »

halestock wrote: post #79
cameldrv wrote: post #74

I’ve seen a lot of people on the internet over the years say things like “the government can’t make x illegal, it’s just y.” For example, the government can’t make wiping your phone at the border illegal, it’s just punching four numbers into your phone, just like a pin, only a different four numbers, which could just have well been your pin. U.S. law though is highly non-autistic and what you were trying to do is jus…

A lot of engineer types forget that the law is not code, and reductionist arguments almost never actually work in practice because it's a human interpreting the law.

There is a strong bias by the courts to interpret the law in such a way that it makes sense, and achieves the goals the legislature had when enacting it.
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