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If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

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Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#691

Post by unsungNovelty »

ragall wrote: post #636
unsungNovelty wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch is not "bleeding edge" . It's latest stable version of packages/software.

Upstream developers declaring a release as "stable" isn't sufficient to make it so. Distros and users are the ones who decide what is stable and what isn't.

I've had more problems in point releases in my last 15years of using Linux. The problem and issues usually happen because of the said holding off of outdated software. If it's desktop computing, Arch (or rolling releases) are the best option. Arch, when it breaks, it's also the easiest to fix. I'll agree with you if it's about server side of things.

I wrote a lil about it all here: https://www.unsungnovelty.org/posts/01/2024/a-linux-distro-r...

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#692

Post by unsungNovelty »

ragall wrote: post #689
MrDrMcCoy wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trouble is, there's an enormous gap between when maintainers accept that a package as stable and when it actually makes it into the next release. I'd be plenty happy waiting an extra month or two for a stable release, but am not thrilled with waiting a year or more for one.

I used to think that way when I was young and with plenty of free time. Nowadays I want stability more than anything else and I'm fine with software that's 1 year old. The only problem still present is how to buy a new laptop and have everything work from the beginning.

Which is exactly why I use Arch. I've has more papercuts from point releases than arch. My argument is not even Arch. But rolling releases.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#693

Post by unsungNovelty »

ludston wrote: post #494
unsungNovelty wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arch is not "bleeding edge" . It's latest stable version of packages/software.

The fact that Arch is bleeding edge has been an explicit part of the Arch philosophy for as long as I've been using it (for 20 years now). It breaks a lot less frequently than it used to.

I personally think the whole bleeding edge argument is funny. Imagine me telling macOS27 is bleeding edge. Or any stable version of software u use is bleeding edge and that we should wait 6 months before using it.

Arch reflects the state of linux. I will never say it's perfect. But rolling releases give u the latest stable version of software. Like I said, I've found arch to be easier to fix. I've been burned too many times cos of Ubuntu and the lots.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#694

Post by Chu4eeno »

linzhangrun wrote: post #581
tmoertel wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I have been running Fedora Linux on multiple systems for about two decades, including on my daily drivers, and it's been pretty much solid.

Right at this moment, my mouse cursor cannot figure out what scale it should use across three monitors with different resolutions and scaling, and has become a blurry group of pixels. GNOME has also frozen the whole system for several seconds multiple times recently. Codex says it is a problem with the time component. I am still dealing with another recent problem where the system sometimes takes forever to boot, but…

It sounds like Wayland.

When you decide to suddenly stuff some of the most complex pieces of software together (the X server and the compositor which sometimes also double as a desktop shell) into giant codebase/process with seemingly no proper plan or roadmap and make up the specification along the way (or just don't, wayland still has no proper XACE replacement, so kiosk tooling etc. is ad-hoc), you get Wayland in its current form.

Rant over; if you want to actually find out what is making stuff stall, maybe try bpftrace, DTrace or SystemTap (depending on what your distro ships and what tooling is more familiar/suited to you)? Or just run `perf top` and see if anything stands out.

For the boot run `sudo systemd-analyze critical-chain` and see what it is waiting on. And be ready for the nightmare that is the systemd "design": https://blog.darknedgy.net/technology/2020/05/02/0/

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#695

Post by Chu4eeno »

ndriscoll wrote: post #115
frameset wrote: post #37

> I opened Slack on macOS, the icon kept bouncing in the dock for a few seconds. I got impatient, switched to Ghostty, and started typing. Just then, the Slack window appeared, stole focus from Ghostty and the git pull command was sent to the group chat. One of my absolute favourite features on KDE Plasma with Wayland is the global setting to control what can steal focus. It works wonderfully, and I always miss it wh…

Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE. It's been great for a long time and only ever gets better. It's as if Windows 7 just continued to slowly iterate and add useful polish. NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 mi…

> NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 minipc. I still found that to be annoying enough to look into why it seemed so slow (and learned about the loading issue). Can't imagine things taking so long that you actually switch to another task. The same minipc can easily handle my 4k 240hz HDR monitor as well, and the whole experience is completely smooth.

KDE actually solved that long time ago with kdeinit (https://web.archive.org/web/20010517071320/www.suse.de/~bast... and follow-up work by Lubos, see e. g. https://conference2005.kde.org/slides/kde-performance/index....), but the new crop of developers didn't notice much difference on their high-end systems with SSDs, so they ripped it out.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#696

Post by account42 »

DiskoHexyl wrote: post #575
zrobotics wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only software I've been excited about an update for in years has been games, that seems like the only category where devs actually add features people are excited about. For example, the latest KCD2 patch added a fun but brief new quest [0]. Not universal though. Besides your example, even for single player games patches can be basically malicious. I've had Fallout 4 locked on updates for like 3 years at this poi…

Lots of games’ updates break popular mods, introduce launchers and/or break linux compatibility and/or online mode, remove music with expired licenses, censor something and increase system requirements. Sadly we’re way past the point where games became like all the other software in that regard

This would be less of a problem if patches are something you still installed deliberately - instead we have to fight Steam to let us play the games we already have a working install of.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#697

Post by account42 »

bee_rider wrote: post #619
madeofpalk wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * paid for directly by the user hahahahah. Games are steering further and further to this not being true. Where each player explicitly doesn't pay for it, and instead they contain an increasing series of dark patterns in order to steer players to fleece their money in a series of microtransactions.

You have a good point, there are some games with terrible business models too. I just don’t play them, haha.

Unfortunately enough do play them that those practices are spreading.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#698

Post by account42 »

classified wrote: post #570
bee_rider wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think games are the exception because they are * relatively small purchases * paid for directly by the user * expected to be enjoyable Most other software fails at least one of those tests, reducing the ability to shop around and make an informed decision.

We can't change the fact that commercial OS vendors are all feudal overlords now, but the lawmakers are letting them get away with it and that is something we might still be able to change.

We can also choose a different OS, at least for real (non-phone) personal computers.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#699

Post by linzhangrun »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #694
linzhangrun wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right at this moment, my mouse cursor cannot figure out what scale it should use across three monitors with different resolutions and scaling, and has become a blurry group of pixels. GNOME has also frozen the whole system for several seconds multiple times recently. Codex says it is a problem with the time component. I am still dealing with another recent problem where the system sometimes takes forever to boot, but…

It sounds like Wayland. When you decide to suddenly stuff some of the most complex pieces of software together (the X server and the compositor which sometimes also double as a desktop shell) into giant codebase/process with seemingly no proper plan or roadmap and make up the specification along the way (or just don't, wayland still has no proper XACE replacement, so kiosk tooling etc. is ad-hoc), you get Wayland in…

Fedora 44 removes X11 :)

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#700

Post by account42 »

charcircuit wrote: post #513
Gigachad wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TNT duping is a good example. It’s basically impossible to accidentally run in to this glitch, but the community has built tons of mechanisms around using it and generally like it. Patching it out would be more “correct” but serve to only limit user creativity and inventions.

TNT duping is a classic example of how players will optimize the fun out of the game if you give them a chance. Your claim that people won't accidentally run into is not true as it only takes one YouTube tutorial to discover it. Many popular farm designs rely on it so it is not hard to stumble upon it. Remember this is a game where people had to use third party sites to figure out how to discover how to craft anythin…

> it only takes one YouTube tutorial to discover it

And game developers who care about this are the ones that preemptively take the fun out of games. If someone ruins their experience by looking at tutorials that's entirely self afflicted.

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