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US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

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Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#141

Post by guywithahat »

> US prosecutors charge Atlanta man after GrapheneOS phone wipes itself during airport search

I really don't like this title. Officers asked him to open the phone, which he pretended to do, but instead wiped the device

> During the questioning, agents repeatedly asked Tunick to unlock his phone and warned they would seize it if he refused. When he finally provided a passcode, the phone appeared to restart. The defense motion states that "the screen went blank, flashed several times, and the phone appeared to restart," resulting in the loss of data.

The title implies the agents maybe entered too many pins by mistake and the device auto-wiped, or that it reset itself with no human intervention, which isn't what happened. This is more like shredding paper when the FBI arrives at your office, which most people would attribute to destroying evidence. I hope he wins the case in principle (I think there's a risk of a slippery slope here) but it wouldn't be a moral tragedy if he lost.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#142

Post by zarzavat »

morkalork wrote: post #95
Verdex wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an interesting idea, but was that GrapheneOS person a lawyer giving legal advice?

No, he wasn't, what is your point?

It's possible that could be destruction of evidence as well. Why should it matter whose meat sticks type in the decoy pin?

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#143

Post by kube-system »

stemlord wrote: post #44
theturtletalks wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is different than when law enforcement serve a warrant and the defendant wipes his computer before the agents can get a hold of it. In that case the warrant covers what you destroyed as evidence. Though during traffic stops, if a defendant disposes of his drugs while on the run, that can also carry a charge of destroying evidence even though no warrant was issued. IANAL

Hm but the drugs are only evidence because they're illegal? So the phone owner only destroyed evidence if the phone contained something illegal, but innocent until proben guilty?

No, destroying evidence is a crime even if possession of that evidence is legal.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#144

Post by thelastgallon »

Its best for all of us to figure out how to use phone-as-a-linux-vm with the physical phone just hardware. It will solve many problems: commoditize the phone ecosystem, eventually making them repairable, run our own apps instead of apple/google. Access phone-vm from laptop/desktop ...

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#145

Post by wpm »

gruez wrote: post #41
Guvante wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to prove you destroyed evidence, you have the mens rea component with the deceptive pin code but the defense can simply plainly say they didn't want the police to read their private device. Your example is fabricated since the justice department didn't even bring forward a specific crime they believe was committed here. If they charged him with a crime and had evidence his device had evidence of that crime…

>with the deceptive pin code but the defense can simply plainly say they didn't want the police to read their private device. That's as convincing as saying you burned all the documents because you don't want people who break in to read all your financial records. It just happened to start after the SEC came knocking

Except this isn't the SEC actually pursuing a voicable crime. This person was under no suspicion at all. They were simply coming home after being abroad: last I checked that is not a crime. Outside of a crime, "evidence" is just called property. If the TSA can't show "we have provable evidence gathered elsewhere to show that there was possible incriminating data on that phone" all they did was wipe this guys phone. All they had was pre-crime "he was involved in the movement against Cop City so we're gonna search his phone". No "he was meeting with terrorists in the DR". No "we have good reason to believe that when he was in the DR he communicated with terrorists". Just "uhhh we were looking for anything prohibited[1] and we targeted this guy because he was involved in some anti-cop protest group 3 years ago".

If you can't see how insanely thin their argument is, and how easily this will be abused, I don't know what to tell you. We could just as easily say having any passcode on your phone at all is obstruction of justice, since the feds could want to look on your phone for whatever made up reason, and if they can't because its encrypted, well why did you do that? What are you trying to hide? Evidence of a crime!?!?!

1. I had to call out, "looking for anything prohibited" is a direct fucking quote from CBP. They admitted it was a fishing expedition.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#146

Post by smrq »

mikeweiss wrote: post #132
mh- wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I favorited the comment for the same reason. It's a perfect way of describing it.

I think it's insulting

It's kind of funny and also kind of insulting. I'd laugh if a friend said it but said seriously by some rando on the Internet, nah, find a better way to put it.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#147

Post by [deleted] »

DanHulton wrote: post #65

If your threat model means you can’t afford for border security to view your device, wipe the damn thing yourself before crossing the border and restore it from an encrypted online backup on the other side. You’re just carrying a blank phone that you intend to set up and use later, and they can’t force you to install your backup onto a phone. Now, this is sus as hell, and you’ll probably draw all kinds of extra atten…

[deleted]

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#148

Post by Exoristos »

mannanj wrote: post #90
malcolmgreaves wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m quite unfamiliar with this notion. What law says it’s illegal to lie when you’re not under oath during a court proceeding?

you had answers here. I'm trying to understand why our leaders can get away with lying so much and it being obviously in the public record, with videos on YouTube etc, and there being no recourse or accountability? Is it true that the law is only selectively applied to some people?

"Our leaders" also are sometimes persecuted for lying to a federal officer; the past few years there have been more than one high-profile case.

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#149

Post by [deleted] »

gib444 wrote: post #129
mullingitover wrote: post #112

Seems like they’re going to have a struggle proving intent. “I was stressed out and afraid and I got the passwords mixed up” would be the magic words I’d hear as a juror and I wouldn’t be able to vote to convict.

Surely they'll just dig into as to why he set up the feature originally?

[deleted]

Re: US citizen charged after GrapheneOS phone wipes during airport search

#150

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

zarzavat wrote: post #142
morkalork wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he wasn't, what is your point?

It's possible that could be destruction of evidence as well. Why should it matter whose meat sticks type in the decoy pin?

Because one is a clear intent to mislead while the other has plausible deniability. "It was there in case of robbery."
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