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Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

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Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#271

Post by simonh »

petre wrote: post #263
simonh wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Putin want people to think that Putin is sick or infirm, and his ability to lead might be compromised? His entire schtick is that he's a strongman leader and the only reliable option in Russia.

It's basically targeted maketing. They pretty much wanted the West lethargic and unreactive at some point early in the war. Like "don't bother sending aid to Ukraine because Putin is kicking the bucket soon" kind of a narrative. In Russia yes, they project the strongman narrative.

I’d have thought the effect would be the opposite. Support Ukraine because it’s only going to be a short war, as Russia will be giving up soon, so why let them get conquered?

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#272

Post by spwa4 »

rjzzleep wrote: post #167
alephnerd wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Romania is spending a lot of cash on defense measures for drones and other armament Some of this is going to be stalled - Romania was planning on deploying the Iron Dome [0] and Spyder [1] for AD which was going to be co-produced by Volkswagen in their German factories that were on the chopping block, but Qatar (Volkswagen's largest minority shareholder with 17% voting share) blocked that deal [2]. [0] - https://ww…

Iron Dome is designed for protecting from home made rockets made with dung from the Gaza Strip. And according to research the main reason for the low casualty rate is actually the early warning. How exactly is it supposed to help with real missiles and drones? How do these scams keep happening? Why doesn't anyone care how their taxpayer money is spent?

Exactly. Iron dome was designed for Iranian designed drones and missiles (designed with Chinese help). There is nothing "home made" about palestinian actions, or "the cause", not even the propaganda that it's all homemade. Built by Iran too mostly (again with Chinese help). These are the exact missiles raining down on European cities.

China even built in insurance (check what the fuel is for the more advanced rockets, then check if Iran can actually synthesize that fuel ... heh. Weird)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-57092245

Oh and to add insult to injury, the big problem with both European and US air defense, being overwhelmed by numbers of drones and rockets, is something Israel has demonstrated how to deal with a dozen times. In fact this system was designed for that.

Therefore Iron dome, Israeli experience and Israeli tactics are exactly what's needed here.

But of course politics are more important than direct demonstrations and weapons fire showing exactly who Europe's enemies are. Sorry that I ever suggested anything remotely different. Apologies. Please continue.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#273

Post by esseph »

squidbeak wrote: post #103
esseph wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See gattr's comment above Basically GROM getting "leave" and then ending up with their whole team inside Ukraine as "contractors", just with deniability. https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/polish-mercenaries... Regarding efforts to provide deniability for their operations, a Polish officer informed him: “we worked out a formula for our presence in Ukraine … we were simply sent on paid leave. Politicians preten…

You are mixing legitimate sources reporting the intelligence suggesting Russia is seeking a provocation in Poland with a Kremlin propganda channel lying about Polish commandos operating in Ukraine. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/military-watch-magazine-bias/

Thanks, wasn't aware of that website backing.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#274

Post by koiueo »

blagie wrote: post #267
ifwinterco wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the point he's making though - this kind of response just validates Russian propaganda, makes Russia look good and makes Ukraine look bad. If you want Ukraine to win the information war then this isn't that helpful? Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective

> Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective I seriously thought this was the case, but looking at the post history, it's probably a question of Hanlon's Razor. Poster appears to be Ukrainian, and clueless. Russian trolls feed on these types, unfortunately, and they end up polarized quickly enough. That's the am…

I admire anyone who has the energy to fight on the informational front, but I think that's mostly pointless. People who haven't decided on their stance in this war are a minority.

We have IMO, an informational stalemate, with russians having much better positions, unfortunately, thanks to their network of agents covering entire planet, and huge investments over the last two decades (and even before that: the entire Bandera horror-story is their work from soviet times, because Bandera been fighting russian soviet colonizers).

Those a bit smarter have figured that you can not trust a single word coming from russians. Their methods have been studied, described, and presented.

Those who keep repeating russian propaganda, will continue doing so until russia is defeated militarily (and I'm not saying that's gonna happen soon, or even during my lifetime, those folks in EU better prepare).

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#275

Post by koiueo »

azan_ wrote: post #208
blagie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What you've listed here is not what russia lists as a reason for attacking Ukraine. And even if it was, it's still really shitty pretext.

Where are you from?

You see, I've been in Ukraine in 2014, and I've been observing everything from the front seat, so to say.

Generally what ruskies say does not matter. Not a single word.

But specifically, the pretexts they may be stating now (I don't follow what they say), may be different from what they stated in 2014.

It baffles me that after so much bs spewed by russian propaganda, people waste their effort trying to synthesize a coherent story.

The only rock fact: ruskies say whatever gives them tactical advantage at the moment.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#276

Post by ithkuil »

dragonwriter wrote: post #217
iwontberude wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If the country has to survive and recover rather quickly, not collapse, for your prosecution scenario to be likely and effective against any significant share of the people who caused this.

It's astonishing how many people really seem to think that total collapse / destruction of a system can be an effective way for fixing things

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#277

Post by ithkuil »

blagie wrote: post #135
koiueo wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no logic behind russia's pretexts. In 2014-15 they started shelling civilians in Donetsk and Luhansk regions, then used that as a pretext to increase their military presence by pretending it's all local militias fighting back the shelling the ruskies themselves started. The pretext was fully fabricated, the militias theatre was fully fabricated. Nothing made sense. To anyone with a pinch if intellect the trut…

[flagged]

> Best propaganda is usually all true but selective of facts. In any group of more than a million people, some will do something bad

This seems a trivial detail but I think it's a profound mechanism of the current disinformation climate

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#278

Post by ithkuil »

ifwinterco wrote: post #234
koiueo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's the point he's making though - this kind of response just validates Russian propaganda, makes Russia look good and makes Ukraine look bad. If you want Ukraine to win the information war then this isn't that helpful? Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective

Are there Ukrainian schools in Russia?

EDIT: I won't pretend to know much about the history of the conflict. But the thing that made me lean towards supporting Ukraine was the widespread Russian rhetoric that "Ukraine doesn't exist, the Ukrainian language doesn't exist, they are just Russians". Such imperialistic attitude and the resulting asymmetry is incompatible with any attempt to shame Ukraine at not being perfect in the treatment of Russian minorities in Ukraine. All while ukrainian children are kidnapped and resettled in Russia to become Russians.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#279

Post by bell-cot »

nradov wrote: post #269
bell-cot wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. With the relative speeds, I'd guess the Falcons would use an attack profile similar to ground strafing - letting them pass well above the cloud of debris. Any thoughts? Also, Wikipedia gives a 3km effective firing range for the M61 - but it'd be no surprise if the F-16's standard targeting optics can't achieve that against small airborne targets.

This video shows a Ukrainian F-16 doing just that along with reactions from a pair of experienced US fighter pilots. It seems they're shooting from closer than 3km. https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k

Far closer, because (my impression) the F-16 has nothing resembling the targeting systems you'd want for this job.

Hopefully a decent defense contractor or few sees business opportunities here.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#280

Post by preg_match »

wk_end wrote: post #101
TiredOfLife wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hawe you been in coma? There has been a ww2 sized war in eastern europe for 4 years

A "World War" probably isn't characterized by its "size" (whatever that means) but rather by the fact that the combat theatre extends over much of "the world", or that much of "the world" are active belligerents. Ukraine is right now a localized conflict; I don't think it counts. FWIW, as one potential size metric: casualties in Ukraine (so far) are comparable to the Korean or Vietnam War, and an order of magnitude l…

All major (and some minor) world powers are invested in this war in some way. China, Iran, India, the US, Russia of course, Europe. By population that's a lot. By power or influence that's also a lot. I think the main difference is the overt-ness. War has changed a lot since WWII, was have a lot "safer" and longer distance tools, including financing. Financing is way different now, it's instant for starters.
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