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Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

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Re: Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

#11

Post by temp0826 »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #6
temp0826 wrote: post #4

Why would you manage a server with Kubernetes in any case??

Because otherwise you have to use this! Or some other DIY gobbled together whatever. That's tongue in cheek but a pretty hard check too, imo. The thing of it is, I like kubernetes, I think you'd have to be mad to opt to re-figure this all out, to get adequate parity. But but but I do want there to be competition, evolution, I want people trying things. Usually though the competition is trying to do far less. When peo…

I'm still lost on how Kube has anything to do with server management (as someone who used to be a sysadmin and manage many servers, maybe my definition is just different?). Kubernetes doesn't solve any of the problems this does, it is so far from anything I would reach for to "manage" anything.

Re: Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

#12

Post by stackskipton »

temp0826 wrote: post #11
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because otherwise you have to use this! Or some other DIY gobbled together whatever. That's tongue in cheek but a pretty hard check too, imo. The thing of it is, I like kubernetes, I think you'd have to be mad to opt to re-figure this all out, to get adequate parity. But but but I do want there to be competition, evolution, I want people trying things. Usually though the competition is trying to do far less. When peo…

I'm still lost on how Kube has anything to do with server management (as someone who used to be a sysadmin and manage many servers, maybe my definition is just different?). Kubernetes doesn't solve any of the problems this does, it is so far from anything I would reach for to "manage" anything.

SRE here, when most people say "Server Management" they are talking the root of their problem. "I have this set of Applications and that need to run on this fleet of servers. How do I do this?" and Kubernetes is commonly the answer but not only answer.

Yes, you still need to something to "install" the Kubernetes but that is generally easier surface area with something like Talos OS, K3s, whatever Canonical/Red Hat cooked up.

Re: Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

#14

Post by temp0826 »

stackskipton wrote: post #12
temp0826 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still lost on how Kube has anything to do with server management (as someone who used to be a sysadmin and manage many servers, maybe my definition is just different?). Kubernetes doesn't solve any of the problems this does, it is so far from anything I would reach for to "manage" anything.

SRE here, when most people say "Server Management" they are talking the root of their problem. "I have this set of Applications and that need to run on this fleet of servers. How do I do this?" and Kubernetes is commonly the answer but not only answer. Yes, you still need to something to "install" the Kubernetes but that is generally easier surface area with something like Talos OS, K3s, whatever Canonical/Red Hat co…

Kubernetes is only another application to me, it just manages containers (which probably run applications, which may be serving something, I guess?). Definitions have got a bit muddy since the advent of devops imo! (Maybe part of the weirdness is that this post is about an app that manages crons and files and other os-level stuff)

Re: Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

#15

Post by stackskipton »

temp0826 wrote: post #14
stackskipton wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SRE here, when most people say "Server Management" they are talking the root of their problem. "I have this set of Applications and that need to run on this fleet of servers. How do I do this?" and Kubernetes is commonly the answer but not only answer. Yes, you still need to something to "install" the Kubernetes but that is generally easier surface area with something like Talos OS, K3s, whatever Canonical/Red Hat co…

Kubernetes is only another application to me, it just manages containers (which probably run applications, which may be serving something, I guess?). Definitions have got a bit muddy since the advent of devops imo! (Maybe part of the weirdness is that this post is about an app that manages crons and files and other os-level stuff)

Sure, it's just another application technically. On more practical level, it's pretty much an OS.

Re: Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

#16

Post by stackskipton »

codeduck wrote: post #5

I have to ask why someone would choose this over ansible, ssh, and a proper monitoring and metrics stack. Something like this allows unconstrained config drift with no audit trail.

You shouldn't. If you are small enough, use Docker Compose with Ansible.

Once you get big enough, Kubernetes for 99% of companies, is next logical step.

Re: Show HN: Managing on-premise servers without Kubernetes

#17

Post by jauntywundrkind »

stackskipton wrote: post #15
temp0826 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kubernetes is only another application to me, it just manages containers (which probably run applications, which may be serving something, I guess?). Definitions have got a bit muddy since the advent of devops imo! (Maybe part of the weirdness is that this post is about an app that manages crons and files and other os-level stuff)

Sure, it's just another application technically. On more practical level, it's pretty much an OS.

There's systems like Talos where you are pretty much explicitly not allowed to touch Linux, where essentially the only thing the computer presents that you can control is Kubernetes itself. At that point, the OS is kubernetes basically; I find it much harder to entertain pretenses that it's not when you get that far along. https://github.com/siderolabs/talos

But it's really a gradient. As more and more services and systems move from being systemd services (or whatever) to in kubernetes, I see it as the position along a gradient shifting. Both are operating systems. They're different operating systems, doing different things, but both manage and provide resources for user payloads, both run apps, both host a user interface (apiserver for kubernetes), both have state (also apiserver, vs file-systems).

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