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Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

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Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#261

Post by dredmorbius »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #102
yls wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is not owned by the government, rather by the state. In a democracy, how is this a bad thing?

> In a democracy, how is this a bad thing? Because democracy is effectively mob rule, which means minority voices may get shut out.

Advertising-funded media is inherently plutocratic, in which those with the most money influence direction. Sometimes more overtly than others.

There've been many treatments of this: Jerry Mander's Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television (1978), Edward S. Herman & Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent (1988), Neil Postman's Amusing OUrselves to Death (1985), Hamilton Holt's Commercialism and Journalism (1909) https://archive.org/details/commercialismjou00holtuoft/page/...>.

That last is particularly good for a number of reasons, including that it's short and information dense, and lays out the clear conflicts inherent to advertising-driven media just at the time it was first gaining influence, and at a fraction of its present size and influence.

If you prefer video, media critic Isadore F. "I.F." Stone gave an excellent 1973 interview on the PBS series Day at Night on the state of newspaper journalism in the United States, contrasting the relative independence of big-city dailies vs. rural papers. The former were large enough that no single advertiser could threaten editorial independence.

Link will offer a choice of instances to redirect to: https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=qV3gO3zxQ1g> (video).

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#262

Post by AnimalMuppet »

dh2022 wrote: post #239
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about WWI? This feels more like the start of that - blundering toward catastrophe.

This situation does not resemble the beginning of WW1. wW1 was caused more or less by an inept leader (the Herman Kaiser Wilhelm) with way too much power. Putin cannot play the part Wilhelm played in 1914 because Russia has very little power. Xi Ping cannot play the part Wilhelm played because he is too smart (he is one of the shrewdest and smartest leaders rn). If Xi Ping starts to lose it, then yeah, we may have WW…

And President Trump?

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#263

Post by petre »

simonh wrote: post #136
petre wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The poor health thing "Putin is sick" was a FSB psy-op. Maybe he's sick in the head but otherwise in good health.

Why would Putin want people to think that Putin is sick or infirm, and his ability to lead might be compromised? His entire schtick is that he's a strongman leader and the only reliable option in Russia.

It's basically targeted maketing. They pretty much wanted the West lethargic and unreactive at some point early in the war. Like "don't bother sending aid to Ukraine because Putin is kicking the bucket soon" kind of a narrative.

In Russia yes, they project the strongman narrative.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#264

Post by blagie »

azan_ wrote: post #208
blagie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What you've listed here is not what russia lists as a reason for attacking Ukraine. And even if it was, it's still really shitty pretext.

Yes, these are very much among Russia's pretexts.

There were others as well. Most have at least some basis as well. For example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/422nd_Unmanned_Systems_Regimen...

And yes, it is still a really shitty set of pretexts.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#265

Post by blagie »

adrian_b wrote: post #238
blagie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are right that the Russians have been frequently somewhat mistreated in the former Soviet Republics where they have become minorities. However, this is an extraordinarily hypocritical claim, because this has followed a time when for various durations, between a half of century and two centuries the Russians have mistreated the minorities of those places in a much more ferocious way, inclusively by robbing them, m…

That's missing the point.

When a toddler does something inappropriate, "but he did it to me" is not an excuse. If both kids did something bad, I want both to apologize, and both to move on. It's also not a contest for who did something worse. I want Ukraine to apologize to Poland. I want Poland to apologize to Ukraine. I want both nations to move on.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Indeed, that's doubly the case when it's nations -- a civilian hit in a retaliatory strike often has nothing to do with an atrocity. I don't know where you are, but I'll pretend the US. If someone whose father died in Guantanamo, or whose child was killed in an airstrike in Afghanistan, killed your mother, would they be "right"? Would it be hypocritical of you to complain?

Or if you want to punish a dictator, does it make sense to starve the people in his nation -- most of whom probably want him out even more?

I am perfectly aware of all of Russia's wrongs. You missed most of the big ones, from holodomor, to about a half-millennium of other torment of people in Ukraine.

You try to do right for your own soul. Apologizing doesn't weaken you.

And you don't punish children for the sins of their fathers.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#266

Post by petre »

rainworld wrote: post #91
petre wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin's only option is to escalate at this point, otherwise he's seen as weak with the war going so well. The Romanians should also be really getting their act together and start shooting the bogeys down. Turkey didn't think twice before shooting down a Russian Su-24 in 2015 for violating Turkish airspace for about 17 seconds. This is how you "negotiate" with the Russians: first you break their nose when cross some r…

“This is how you "negotiate" with Turks: you kill dozens of them, then don’t apologize.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Balyun_airstrikes

And in turn Russia's ally Assad was removed from power by HTS aided by yours truly, Türkiye.

https://www.congress.gov/crs_external_products/IN/HTML/IN124...

Anyway, the key to securing the Black Sea is Türkiye with the other smaller NATO allies.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#267

Post by blagie »

ifwinterco wrote: post #234
koiueo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's the point he's making though - this kind of response just validates Russian propaganda, makes Russia look good and makes Ukraine look bad. If you want Ukraine to win the information war then this isn't that helpful? Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective

> Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective

I seriously thought this was the case, but looking at the post history, it's probably a question of Hanlon's Razor.

Poster appears to be Ukrainian, and clueless.

Russian trolls feed on these types, unfortunately, and they end up polarized quickly enough.

That's the amplification in these disinformation wars.

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#268

Post by koiueo »

ifwinterco wrote: post #234
koiueo wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's the point he's making though - this kind of response just validates Russian propaganda, makes Russia look good and makes Ukraine look bad. If you want Ukraine to win the information war then this isn't that helpful? Unless of course you are actually pro-Russian and you're just playing this game at a higher level in which case... congrats because that is effective

[flagged]

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#269

Post by nradov »

bell-cot wrote: post #221
nradov wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukrainian F-16s have used cannons to shoot down some Russian drones. Cheaper than a missile, but a somewhat risky maneuver as it requires getting close at low altitude and possibly flying through the exploding debris. https://www.zona-militar.com/en/2026/02/09/ukrainian-f-16am-...

Thanks. With the relative speeds, I'd guess the Falcons would use an attack profile similar to ground strafing - letting them pass well above the cloud of debris. Any thoughts? Also, Wikipedia gives a 3km effective firing range for the M61 - but it'd be no surprise if the F-16's standard targeting optics can't achieve that against small airborne targets.

This video shows a Ukrainian F-16 doing just that along with reactions from a pair of experienced US fighter pilots. It seems they're shooting from closer than 3km.

https://youtu.be/xuriiDzSB5k

Re: Third Drone Shot Down in Three Days in Romanian Territory

#270

Post by koiueo »

adrian_b wrote: post #238
blagie wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You are right that the Russians have been frequently somewhat mistreated in the former Soviet Republics where they have become minorities. However, this is an extraordinarily hypocritical claim, because this has followed a time when for various durations, between a half of century and two centuries the Russians have mistreated the minorities of those places in a much more ferocious way, inclusively by robbing them, m…

> Yes, Russians have been mistreated after the separation of the Soviet Republics

The fuck you're talking about?! Mistreated how?!

Give a specific example

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