Live data from Hacker News

LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

debian.org

131–140 of 228 posts

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#131
post #18

Don't misinterpret this link as representing a final decision. It's actually three separate proposals which will be debated and then voted on. Proposal A is "expressly forbid any contributions to Debian written with the use or assistance of large language models (LLMs) or other generative AI tools." Proposal B is "The Debian project allows AI-assisted contributions (partially or fully generated by an LLM), provided t…

Note that we are still in the discussion period, and more proposals can and will be added. Some might even be withdrawn.

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#132

The whole anti-LLM crusade feels like developers trying to gatekeep their own relevance. They know the tool can automate parts if not all of what gave them status, so instead of adapting, they want to declare its use illegitimate and keep themselves as mandatory middlemen. Which is already ironic enough. If Proposal A passes and is somehow enforceable, every distro that embraces AI while Debian moralizes about it wil…

The idea that Debian will become irrelevant if it doesn’t accept llm output is so obviously wrong. What would that even mean? Debian has never been a bleeding edge distribution, it’s pretty much the whole appeal, that and the strict rules for packaged software. Even if true, less people using Debian is pretty much irrelevant, it’s not a company trying to grow at all cost.

The whole „embrace genAI or be left behind“ is toxic nonsense repeated without actually engaging with reasons people have to reject the technology. Even in the case where the full-AI future becomes true, it takes pretty much no time to catch up and get up to speed with LLM tooling.

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the reasons to ban LLMs are beyond what they do to code. I.e. environmental degradation, scraping without authorization, reduce human interaction etc. So I think banning them still makes sense.

All of which have been challenged though. As the stake is high, any such reason (for or against LLMs, to be fair) has to be backed with Wikipedia-level evidences at the very least.

Is the stake high? Doesn’t seem to be the case to me

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#135
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware, that a very big chunk of Linux distributions like Ubuntu are build in top of Debian? Why do you want Debian to die?

Anyone that has an opinion about this, already knows that, yes. Drop the condescension.

My question was genuine. I have no idea why someone wants Debian to die, so I asked.

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#137
post #17

> A LLM (...) merely produces syntactically likely combinations of the training data While doesn't matter much in the rest of the policy, this is a common misconception among AI skeptics. It is not the case for a long time (since RL is used heavily in the training) and a LLM may go beyond its training data.

I think the questionable term is not “syntactically likely” but “merely”. Syntactical likeness is a vast solution space that encompasses the work of a terrible developer and a genius developer. In fact this solution space is a gap wide enough to encompass all coding knowledge and expertise.

"Combinations of the training data" is also hiding a pretty common and serious misconception about modern generative AI: this seems to come from a mental model that LLMs and image generators are merely producing a collage of sorts, especially that this is some way linked to specific parts of the training data as opposed to a generalized result of building up an understanding of how to produce a sentence, piece of code, or plausible image.

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#138
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WTF. Food safety is just a reasonable thing for a mature civilization to do. It has nothing to do with banning technological advancement.

Let's just put this argument to bed shall we? Let's consider another case. Leatherman pocket knives. It has a ~20% chance of cutting you, a 5% change of killing you if it pieces the wrong place in your body. I'm speaking from experience, where I sliced my thumb open (by accident of course!), but it was quite bad that I severed a nerve. Needless to say, I don't feel compelled to take a moral or ethical stance on the u…

At least in the US, no, not many, and the fish itself is very import restricted to keep the toxic parts from reaching the market. Hmmm.

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#139
post #23

This set of proposals, are (sorry) just stupid. It's like saying to someone, you are not allowed to saw wood using an electric saw, you must do it by hand. What are we doing here?! LLM(s) are just a tool. Use it as such. You should own the work anyway.

It's more like: food processing tool A is known to be defective. We ask employees of this restaurant and supply chains to avoid food processing tool A. This seems eminently reasonable. The question is whether the tool is in fact defective.

Ironically, any SoTA LLM would be able to make a better analogy than you. Sometimes the average human is the slop generator

Re: LLM Usage in Debian: Three Proposals

#140
post #118

From Proposal A: > LLM output has very unclear legal status: it may be possible to copyright on its own merits, or not; it may be affected by all of the licenses and copyrights in the training data, or not. Debian Policy and the DFSG require absolute clarity for licensing and copyright[1][2]. Software and other contributions written conventionally by humans with unclear copyright or license status are not allowed in…

>The way the proposers portray it, this problem is a dealbreaker. Is the problem as portrayed? Do LLM vendors attempt to copyright the output?

They're right that this has not been fully tested in court (though neither have some other open source licenses). There's a pretty clear direction that the wind is blowing in, though (you can see in most related cases that the judges focus on issues surrounding the core idea of using copyrighted data for training, and mostly don't give credit to the idea that all of a model's output is a derivative work of all of the input). I don't believe any LLM vendors try to claim copyright on the output of the models.

>How can a contributer know if LLM output includes "pre-existing copyrighted materials (including pre-existing code licensed as free software) authored or owned by third parties"? They can't be familiar with all pre-existing code in the world.

This is a common objection/worry. It seems relatively clear that even if most of the output of an LLM is not subject to existing copyright, some of it could well be (especially if, e.g. you feed an LLM a codebase and ask it to just output it again verbatim or with different variable and function names). What exactly the risks are if you are if this happens while you are using the LLM in good faith is pretty unclear (the vendors pretty much just say "It's at your own risk").

(This case felt a little surprising to me, BTW: https://petapixel.com/2026/07/22/dog-photographer-loses-copy... . But copyright case law is weird, arbitrary, and somewhat capricious about what aspects of a work are and aren't protected by copyright. With code this can also potentially be weird because in principle the functional parts are not protected, only the human expression components are. Untangling this can be time consuming, expensive, and ugly)

Post reply on HN