Same frustration applies to file converters — the UX is almost universally broken. Most tools silently upload your files to S3 while showing a spinning wheel, then email you a link. The File System Access API has made it possible to do this properly in-browser now, but almost nobody uses it.
Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
151–160 of 162 posts
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where does Copy give you feedback that you actually copied something?
The paste action gives you feedback by having the cursor move to the end of the selected text after it replaces the text you copied with itself. If you're on Android, lately it actually does give feedback by putting the copied text into the predictive text/autocomplete bar above the keyboard (I find this annoying as I'm usually copying text to save for later use, and I use the appearance of text I want in the correct…
That’s too late, if copy didn’t work or I copied the wrong part I have to go all the way back and select the part to copy again.
That’s why Ctrl-X, Ctrl-Z is the way
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#153Cut and Paste is three operations. Cut is two operations copy and delete, copy is never undone by undo it should not be undone when you cut either. I cut, undo, ..., undo, and paste multiple times a day. It's a feature not a bug. > Cut & Paste is not atomic Yes because it's two different actions. What does "Ghost Cut" do if you paste multiple times? Paste the cut text first and then what? The previous thing in your c…
It’s not unreasonable to suggest that text editors need a nice atomic move (but personally I don’t see the need for it)
in most editors you can just select text and drag it around with the mouse
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. You also open the gates to many edge cases where I don't know what it is supposed to happen. What if I never paste the cut text? Does it stay faded? What if I copy some other text, maybe on another app, before pasting? Do I paste the faded text or the new copied one? Also, as you mention, I hate that you can't paste on a different program given the fact that the clipboard is untouched when you press ctrl-x T…
The Excel workflow is surprising from the viewpoint of consistency with the OS but works pretty well for Excel users. Cut, paste multiple times, enter for the last one. I notice the multiple paste doesn't work on Excel on the Web.
But excel cells are not simply text: it is a different format, I don't have specific existing behavior for that.
It is very different with plaintext
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. You also open the gates to many edge cases where I don't know what it is supposed to happen. What if I never paste the cut text? Does it stay faded? What if I copy some other text, maybe on another app, before pasting? Do I paste the faded text or the new copied one? Also, as you mention, I hate that you can't paste on a different program given the fact that the clipboard is untouched when you press ctrl-x T…
The Excel workflow is surprising from the viewpoint of consistency with the OS but works pretty well for Excel users. Cut, paste multiple times, enter for the last one. I notice the multiple paste doesn't work on Excel on the Web.
The clipboard is very weak in Excel. If I copy something, update a cell somewhere and then paste elsewhere, the clipboard vanishes and I need to copy all over again.
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#156Ghost cut looks like a good idea to deal with an issue OP has :
- I located where I want my text to go
- but when I select and cut, it reflows and I need to locate the place again
Considering the millions of edge cases with Copy, Cut & Paste, the best idea seems to use two other keys for Ghost Cut and Ghost Paste. And Ghost Paste would put it into the clipboard so that you can paste it multiple times and in other apps.
I've another idea of how to do the Ghost thing :
- locate where the text has to go, mark the location
- select and cut the text, the editor reflows
- go back to the marked location then paste
the editor may have built-in bookmark key shortcuts, or it would be a new thing to create.
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with TFA on all points and therefore strongly disagree with all that is said in this post. "Cut'n paste" should be one atomic operation. If you want to do multiple pastes (why? what's the context?) then copy to the clipboard and paste to your heart's content. It's also a fundamental flaw that undoing cut doesn't undo its side effects. Undo should always mean: restore the state of the world (/of the system) to…
> Undo should always mean: restore the state of the world (/of the system) to where it was before. So if you copy and undo you want clipboard restored instead of undoing the previous app action??? Or should it maybe undo the mouse movement? Or text cursor movement? "State of the world" was the cursor in a different place after all Such "absolutist" approach won't help you design a good system as that "always" depends…
Why stop there, move back the clock as well. And send requests to all the remote hosts to send our packets back.
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Undo should always mean: restore the state of the world (/of the system) to where it was before. So if you copy and undo you want clipboard restored instead of undoing the previous app action??? Or should it maybe undo the mouse movement? Or text cursor movement? "State of the world" was the cursor in a different place after all Such "absolutist" approach won't help you design a good system as that "always" depends…
Why stop there, move back the clock as well. And send requests to all the remote hosts to send our packets back.
One reason to stop there is because your examples are absurd, while mine aren't. The are already apps where you have undo stacks for selection and text cursor positioning, so coupling that with the "state of the world" is an option. But unfortunately absurdity doesn't offer any guidance just like shallow absolutes. Think harder
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the "cut" file just disappears then? Is there an "undo?" That seems really horrifying.
No. The file disappearing is something. If you cut, and don't paste, nothing happens. And there is nothing to undo.
So the "cut" file doesn't disappear from its directory when you "cut" it? Only when it's pasted?
Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with TFA on all points and therefore strongly disagree with all that is said in this post. "Cut'n paste" should be one atomic operation. If you want to do multiple pastes (why? what's the context?) then copy to the clipboard and paste to your heart's content. It's also a fundamental flaw that undoing cut doesn't undo its side effects. Undo should always mean: restore the state of the world (/of the system) to…
> Undo should always mean: restore the state of the world (/of the system) to where it was before. So if you copy and undo you want clipboard restored instead of undoing the previous app action??? Or should it maybe undo the mouse movement? Or text cursor movement? "State of the world" was the cursor in a different place after all Such "absolutist" approach won't help you design a good system as that "always" depends…
Well, in fact a good principle is to limit side effects as much as possible. Copy or cut inside the same document should probably not involve the system clipboard at all. The system clipboard could be triggered/populated when the app goes out of focus for example.