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The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

theguardian.com

141–150 of 179 posts

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#141
Yeah it’s quite common it seems. Similar to the ULEZ camera takedowns. And the ULEZ cameras were also supposedly a tool of government control. As were SF’s speed cameras. And so on and so forth.

I am not convinced. I am happy with the speed cameras, and I’m happy with the ULEZ cameras, and I’m happy with Flock cameras.

The position that we must destroy state function is outrageous to me. We have a path to peace and safety and the ensuing prosperity. The cameras must be preserved.

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#142
post #141

Yeah it’s quite common it seems. Similar to the ULEZ camera takedowns. And the ULEZ cameras were also supposedly a tool of government control. As were SF’s speed cameras. And so on and so forth. I am not convinced. I am happy with the speed cameras, and I’m happy with the ULEZ cameras, and I’m happy with Flock cameras. The position that we must destroy state function is outrageous to me. We have a path to peace and s…

How does a centralized power structure knowing every action millions of people take bring about "peace and safety and the ensuing prosperity"? I guess you didn't mean for most of us.

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#145
(in the comments here) there are some very interesting topics touched that would definitely warrant a discussion of their own.

One of these topics is how (in many countries) the government become the enemy of it's people - the politicians are aligning willingly (or with help of corruption) towards the rich elites (oligarchy). And they are building a failed state, two tier state - a system where the law only applies to the weak and the strong (plus politicians) can roam unchecked.

In theory the government is hired by sofereign to govern the country to the benefit of the people. In practice government can do just about any bad deed and there is noone to stop them. If you ever lived in 2nd or 3rd world country this is nothing new but the 1st world democracies have enjoyed wonderful egalitarian libral state for many decades and many of them are turning into authoritarian states. Or worse.

This doesn't conclude all my observations but I will stop myself here to see what other people think

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#146
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a perspective I hadn’t heard or considered before. Often times common crime (petty/violent) is viewed as a totally different area as white-collar crime or corruption. But they’re related. As someone who’s had bikes stolen and car broken into, I sympathize with the desire for surveillance (especially in San Francisco). But Flock has no safeguards against cops using it to stalk ex-wives or misusing a partial ma…

I think it would be kind of different if people were having cars broken into less often or bikes returned after being stolen But it's clear that increased surveillance hasn't been leading to stolen property being recovered.

The phrase I constantly recite to people at this point is "Mass surveillance is not mass enforcement and the two are separate words and concepts for a reason." People don't seem to get it until there's an effort to point that out.

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#147
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a nice idea. Everything is backwards right now. It should to be the other way around: random citizens should be essentially anonymous while all members of the government are surveilled 24/7. Surveillance should scale with power.

Funnily enough, the whole "social credit" thing that Westerners like to meme about was supposed to work like that. Although it never really got implemented, it was meant to be a score applied exclusively to business leaders, politicians, etc. And it was actually mostly meant to track corporations rather than individuals. That's why the full name of it was Corporate Social Credit System. It was supposed to increase tr…

> Funnily enough, the whole "social credit" thing that Westerners like to meme about was supposed to work like that.

That’s not particularly funny and those memes are about the actual thing, not what it might have been in an ideal world. What it might have been in an ideal world, had it not been implemented by a totalitarian state is not very relevant.

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#148

There is a growing counter-tech neo luddite movement forming, and I think its going to get very large. At some point we need to step back and ask - why are we simply accepting technologies that erode freedoms and subjugate the masses

Well because the people who control countries (some countries call them kings, others call them billionaires and politicians) said we should.

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#149

(in the comments here) there are some very interesting topics touched that would definitely warrant a discussion of their own. One of these topics is how (in many countries) the government become the enemy of it's people - the politicians are aligning willingly (or with help of corruption) towards the rich elites (oligarchy). And they are building a failed state, two tier state - a system where the law only applies t…

Some of the founding fathers were aware of this and wrote about it and what to do about it.

Re: The growing vigilante movement to knock out Flock surveillance cameras

#150

(in the comments here) there are some very interesting topics touched that would definitely warrant a discussion of their own. One of these topics is how (in many countries) the government become the enemy of it's people - the politicians are aligning willingly (or with help of corruption) towards the rich elites (oligarchy). And they are building a failed state, two tier state - a system where the law only applies t…

> In theory the government is hired by sofereign to govern the country to the benefit of the people.

This kind of suggests that the people ever sat together and decided on a political system that would benefit them. The reality is that even the most egalitarian and liberal system has been put into place by the ruling class and naturally was designed to benefit them. I'd say this is and was true for at least all major western societies. "By the people, for the people" is propaganda to legitimize said political systems after the fact. And we believe it, because it's the ruling ideology.

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