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Did they ghost you?

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Re: Did they ghost you?

#21

Post by rzzzt »

ryandrake wrote: post #11
rzzzt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your proposed time limit (when someone has to be hired to fill the position) and "cooldown period" (when hiring can re-open after someone does not meet expectations in practice)?

It's obviously a difficult problem to write rules around, and there are so many ways for companies to weasel out of any rule you write. The general principle is that you should not advertise a job if you don't actually intend to fill it. But you should also not do it if you have some "theoretical job" you can create and are just fishing for candidates. Any rules I write down here will have trivial ways to work around…

But this is an issue with all legislation (or tabletop game design), right? You also don't want to fall on the opposite end of the scale where the people tasked with prosecuting these violations are allowed to go just by feel.

Re: Did they ghost you?

#22

Post by cableshaft »

rubylimetea wrote: post #20

Is ghosting really such a big deal? Wait until you get an overly smug rejection letter that the author seemed too eager to write, and took too much joy in writing. Some people love to reject, and would never miss an opportunity. Another angle is - If you've been ghosted, you still have not been told no. That means there's no record of you ever getting denied for the position. (and maybe you really haven't been) It's…

You could be waiting to hear back from one company before telling another company that may have extended an offer yes or no, and it can take a while before you determine if you're ghosted or if they're just busy and haven't made a decision yet.

Re: Did they ghost you?

#23

Post by com2kid »

arcade79 wrote: post #10

Anecdotal, I know, but I was ghosted by Google back in 2004-2005 or thereabouts. Back and forth with a recruiter, who promised me that she would book phone screens. Then heard nothing. Pinged her repeatedly. Nothing. A few years later got another Google recruiter after me. Ended up getting hired in 2008. Looked up the previous recruiter. Her last day at the company was the day she promised she would book phone screen…

> Ever since, I keep wondering how many ghostings happen because the person holding the strings disappears for some reason, and there's a lack of system to follow up on that.

This has happened to be more than once. At various points in time Microsoft has used external vendors for its recruiting/hiring pipeline (which, IMHO, is a bad idea, you want people with a vested interest in the company doing all of the recruiting and hiring...).

So yeah, working with a recruiter, wait awhile, nothing, message "oh sorry she left, but the company wants to go forward."

Ugh.

It wasn't any better when I was a hiring manager at Microsoft trying to hire people. :(

Flip side of this is I stopped giving honest feedback after I interviewed a candidate who, on paper, was a stretch for the role. They generally interviewed well but had obvious gaps in their knowledge from being self taught. At the end of the interview they asked me if I had any recommendations for what they could study up on, I emailed some suggested reading (popular tech blogs, probably something by Petzold as well) and got an angry letter back accusing me of being sexist and some other stuff.

Re: Did they ghost you?

#25

Post by dofm »

rubylimetea wrote: post #20

Is ghosting really such a big deal? Wait until you get an overly smug rejection letter that the author seemed too eager to write, and took too much joy in writing. Some people love to reject, and would never miss an opportunity. Another angle is - If you've been ghosted, you still have not been told no. That means there's no record of you ever getting denied for the position. (and maybe you really haven't been) It's…

This is to some extent a generational thing, but yes. It’s rude. If you’re not ready to politely reject numerous candidates, don’t interview them.

If you get a shitty rejection letter, you should see it as a lucky escape. A rejection burns both your bridge and theirs.

If it’s especially shitty, there is nothing stopping you publishing it as a signal to others that a recruiter or employer is wasting people's time.

Especially if you just did a coding exercise that looks suspiciously like code they might put a value on.

Re: Did they ghost you?

#26

Post by throw-the-towel »

orphereus wrote: post #5

My anegdotal experience in EU is that ghosting AFTER the company responds to your application is very, very rare. I would always get the usual "Unfortunately, we have decided..." charades. At least no ghosting. I can think of only one situation, and it was kinda peculiar in its own right (they called me 8 months after my application because they were in a jam and I said I won't be able to start in such a short notice…

My experience in France was that almost everyone ghosts you, including after three rounds of interviews.

Re: Did they ghost you?

#28

Post by [deleted] »

arcade79 wrote: post #10

Anecdotal, I know, but I was ghosted by Google back in 2004-2005 or thereabouts. Back and forth with a recruiter, who promised me that she would book phone screens. Then heard nothing. Pinged her repeatedly. Nothing. A few years later got another Google recruiter after me. Ended up getting hired in 2008. Looked up the previous recruiter. Her last day at the company was the day she promised she would book phone screen…

[deleted]

Re: Did they ghost you?

#29

Post by wombatpm »

derektank wrote: post #17
nekusar wrote: post #3

The real answer is that many jobbads are fraudulent. And fraudulent job ads should be handled the same way a fraudulent advertisement for a good is handled: you either make good and prove hiring, or you're tried for felony fraud.

What do you mean by “make good” and “prove hiring” operationally? Say for example, a company posts 10 job openings, fills 9 of them, but for the tenth, they don’t receive good candidates initially, the hiring manager has to go back to their leadership and negotiate a higher salary for the position, it goes through HR, they update the PD, they do a round of interviews with two good candidates, but then the hiring mana…

Then should be a paper trail of the position, and a final decision by a person to not fill the position.

I feel that as part of unemployment insurance all job postings should tie back to a canonical job position registered with the state with mandatory reporting of applications received,number of interviews conducted,date hired or date position withdrawn, and final dispensation: external hire, internal hire, contract hire, or position withdrawn.

If HR isn’t bullshitting everyone, they should have that data. State agencies and nonprofits already tract the information.

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