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Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

tobi.knaup.me

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Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#151

Post by johnvanommen »

aliasxneo wrote: post #88
chasd00 wrote: post #82

FTFA: American labs need to release frontier-grade open-weight models under licenses that startups can actually build on. oh now i see, the Chinese government is funding the training and release of their best models to pressure OpenAI, Anthropic, and others to do the same for competition's sake. I don't buy it, this seems more like a way to get SOTA models RL'd to comply with Chinese government approved information d…

What tools do we have to countermeasure the state sponsored bias in the Chinese models? Doesn’t seem like a smart plan if individuals can just compensate for the bias.

I worry that AI will be so fundamental to how we do things in the future, companies can mold human behavior via access to the AI tools.

For instance, I worked at FICO. When I mention this, people wonder what they do. The average person only knows FICO as a “score.”

FICO was founded in Silicon Valley.

The average person doesn’t think about how credit scores work, fundamentally.

It’s just software, at its core. FICO incentivizes certain behaviors.

Ever been banned from an online forum?

Now imagine if a corporation could shut you off from a technology that’s literally indispensable.

Same idea.

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#152

Post by theshrike79 »

rullopat wrote: post #149
ozgung wrote: post #126

Everyone is talking about banning Chinese models but nobody talks how it is feasible to ban them. I think it’s impossible simply because technically there is no such thing as a “Chinese model”. There is no way to tell apart an “American” model from a “Chinese” one by looking at their weights. Weights are just numbers and you can’t assign country of origin to numbers. One can find very easy workarounds to any naive at…

You need to ask what happened in Tienanmen square

Would ”who won the 2020 election” be a similar canary for American models?

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#153

Post by throw1234567891 »

rullopat wrote: post #149
ozgung wrote: post #126

Everyone is talking about banning Chinese models but nobody talks how it is feasible to ban them. I think it’s impossible simply because technically there is no such thing as a “Chinese model”. There is no way to tell apart an “American” model from a “Chinese” one by looking at their weights. Weights are just numbers and you can’t assign country of origin to numbers. One can find very easy workarounds to any naive at…

You need to ask what happened in Tienanmen square

or 9/11

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#154

Post by eszed »

DrewADesign wrote: post #81
gwbrooks wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure pricing to recoup costs is artificial.

I think the argument is that artificial comes in with IP law, which some people feel is superfluous. I do think that corporate price gouging is a huge problem that does need to be addressed. But especially with smaller business types — creatives, et al— I still haven’t gotten any grownup answers about what would compel people to get professionally good at something and innovate in the complete absence of copyright: t…

I'm with you on all of that. There is, nevertheless, a strong argument that IP protection (particularly for creative / "culturally significant" works) is too long. Twenty years - interestingly enough, the original time-period in the US - of protection seems like a better (for society) deal than life of the author plus seventy. I think, in fact, most artists would agree: if you went back in time and asked a playwrite or filmmaker in (say) 1940, I'd bet they'd rather someone freely revives their work in 2026 than that it be sat on by a corporation that has forgot it (or they) ever existed.

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#155

Post by Danox »

nicce wrote: post #89
sschueller wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model-on-Chip is coming. GPU are for general computing but have a huge bottle neck for doing model inference. Even not being able to significantly update a model that is burned on a chip the performance gains are immense. You also don't need the latest chip fabs to make them drastically reducing the cost.

Many years until consumers can buy them at reasonable price. Nvdia and AMD are making GPUs bad in purpose for consumers so that nobody can build a datacenter from them. It will take a long time.

Hardware and software getting better every day the barbarians are at the gate…

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#156

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

Danox wrote: post #147

Yes, and yes, again the only way to compete is to build the best not hide in a corner and once again the rest of the world will go on in AI without the United States if we flub it. Circling the wagons, isn’t the long range answer.

This is such an obvious conclusion. To take it a bit further...

Scale matters for these things. If we divide the available chips among 5 competing companies we end up with models that are trained on 1/5 of the resources that they otherwise could've been.

Let the companies take turns training on shared hardware, force them to publish results in the open, and then reward them based on how well the resulting model performs at democratically chosen benchmarks. Meritocracy not monopoly.

Make it about how well you wield the silicon, not how much silicon you wield, and make it a positive-sum game. If the people's data is going in, then the people should benefit from what comes out whether or not they have a subscription.

If capitalism as we know it can't complete, so much the worse for capitalism as we know it.

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#157

Post by marsven_422 »

ozgung wrote: post #126

Everyone is talking about banning Chinese models but nobody talks how it is feasible to ban them. I think it’s impossible simply because technically there is no such thing as a “Chinese model”. There is no way to tell apart an “American” model from a “Chinese” one by looking at their weights. Weights are just numbers and you can’t assign country of origin to numbers. One can find very easy workarounds to any naive at…

[dead]

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#158

Post by falsemyrmidon »

theshrike79 wrote: post #152
rullopat wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to ask what happened in Tienanmen square

Would ”who won the 2020 election” be a similar canary for American models?

I just tried that with claude

> The 2020 U.S. presidential election was won by Joe Biden, who defeated the incumbent, Donald Trump. Biden secured 306 electoral votes to Trump's 232, and won the national popular vote by about 7 million votes. His running mate, Kamala Harris, became the first woman and first person of color elected Vice President.

> Biden was inaugurated as the 46th President on January 20, 2021.

Re: Open-weight AI is having its Kubernetes moment

#160

Post by georgeburdell »

chasd00 wrote: post #82

FTFA: American labs need to release frontier-grade open-weight models under licenses that startups can actually build on. oh now i see, the Chinese government is funding the training and release of their best models to pressure OpenAI, Anthropic, and others to do the same for competition's sake. I don't buy it, this seems more like a way to get SOTA models RL'd to comply with Chinese government approved information d…

No, it’s consistent with what China is doing in other markets, which is dumping product to drive others out of business.

I had a shower thought on how to counteract this, specifically related to the AI dumping. If China is losing substantial money on every token, why wouldn’t an adversary try to maliciously increase consumption? This strategy is not really viable against physical goods dumping because demand is finite and there are large environmental costs. Software demand is infinite and the environmental costs are quite low compared to the financial cost to make it, even with ultra cheap Chinese tokens

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