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Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

karimjedda.com

51–60 of 217 posts

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#51

Code was never expensive.

Code was always expensive. Entire industries of design tools cropped up simply to avoid writing the wrong code since it is so expensive. There are entire journals dedicated to this. Organizations are fixated on making sure that the right code is written since the cost of getting that wrong is so great.

I assume GP meant exactly this (the people designing and writing good code are expensive).

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes correct, Gemma. Will correct it shortly.

If you wrote an initial draft you should consider using a better model or just posting what you wrote. The smaller models can be sufficient for coding but for document writing not highly specific I've yet to be satisfied with AI output. I certainly wouldn't expect gemma to produce good outputs.

Makes sense, perhaps I'll post the raw notes + more material with the next article, prior to any edit. I like to use local models, even if they are not that powerful precisely because of that, I'm forced to put in more thought and it's my signed off article in the end.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#53

I don't think it changes much for good managers. It should always be able setting people and processes up so the team can land durable measurable impact. The managers that thought the job of software engineers was to write code were bad managers. PRs or LoC were never good metrics.

Agreed, which is why I also believe "token usage" and similar proxy metrics aren't the right ones for what's next.

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#54

I think most of this is correct, in spite of potentially being built on a bad assumption. The assumption is that LLMs should be writing the code and human engineers reviewing and verifying the LLM output. And that this pushes the cost of producing down. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Every time I ask LLMs to write code, even with Opus 4.8 (haven't tried it with Opus 5 yet), what I get ends up being totally r…

I write code in Go in an established codebase. 90% of the time the LLM gets a basic api/feature right and fully e2e tested as long as I give it enough business context in the prompt. The other 10% of the time I have to do some follow up prompts to either change the behaviour or change the approach of a given step in the flow or just to point out that the wrong pattern was used and please rather use our codebase stand…

I do think the comment is right about understanding. I'm still feeling out what I think is the right level of understanding to invest in now. I think it is probably not the deep line by line understanding I used to have of the systems I worked on. But I also think it's easy to remain too aloof from how the system is being built, and that this is very bad. I think the right answer is somewhere in between, but I'm still working through my own process and forcing functions to strike that balance properly.

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#55
AI reduces the cost of writing code, but it makes adding things that nobody uses even cheaper. The bottleneck then becomes deciding what deserves to exist—and having the discipline to remove the rest. So this will imply more time spent in code reviews that lead to more iterations in PR's.

AI is doing a good job on writting code these days! Nothing against it; I use it every day, but the context switching is costing us a lot!

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#56

What is the right, best software organization in the current era of AI coding? This question is critical and wholly unanswered in comprehensive research along the same axis as Accelerate (2018, Forsgren, Humble, Kim). There are a lot of (excruciatingly) long-form posts about what folks are pioneering but not a whole lot of follow up about what failed. Where are the short posts on the negative space? How did halving y…

Great framing.

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#57
post #46

Pangram reports this post was 100% AI generated.

It's depressingly hard to find one that isn't. You see the title, think this might be interesting, and puke by the second paragraph.

I'm really open to feedback. I checked your past comments and you posted:

> AI is good at coding if there's an oracle. If the system is ancient, unreadable, untestable, that's exactly the opposite. It won't get the exact set of corner cases.

I sort of mention this in the article, so I'm sure we're somewhat aligned on the core. How would you have worded things?

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#58

In my experience, management is mostly pissing away the gains made by AI by either: 1. Pursuing polish and quality beyond previous norms 2. Replacing $100/mo/seat SAAS with something coded by a junior costing $200/day to develop over months. The cost of code approaches zero, but the cost of having accountability, and hosting remains the same, and so individuals need to only coordinate to the extent that those things…

I think #1 is quite a good thing, on net.

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#59

I think most of this is correct, in spite of potentially being built on a bad assumption. The assumption is that LLMs should be writing the code and human engineers reviewing and verifying the LLM output. And that this pushes the cost of producing down. And I fundamentally disagree with that. Every time I ask LLMs to write code, even with Opus 4.8 (haven't tried it with Opus 5 yet), what I get ends up being totally r…

many of us work with swarms of cheap off-shore contractors and have to rewrite or finish their code already as it is. The llm is much lower friction

Re: Engineering management after the cost of code collapsed

#60
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Code was very rarely the bottleneck in the first place. I disagree. Kinda What AI has made much simpler is that you don't have to waste time checking docs and have the best autocomplete system by a long shot - this was a bottleneck unless you were doing Java or some other language with "perfect" AC What AI made "kinda easier": solving for usual problems. The stuff you would search Stack Overflow, or think a couple…

I disagree. Coordinating 100 folks to align on a problems statement with "agile" and sprints was always the biggest bottleneck. Difference in opinion, internal politics is always a bottleneck. I think now, code is the bottleneck. Just because you can generate million lines of code, people with different skill level think they are accomplishing the task, testing, merge conflicts, trust has become the bottleneck.

A pattern I have seen:

The “old way” would be lots of debate (both bike shedding and useful) among engineers during design phase, and then you’d implement.

Now it’s shifted so there are no design docs and there is only the generated prototype. People trying to do their design review while there’s already a functional-ish prototype and it goes nowhere. There’s an anchoring effect in place because the first thing already exists and management says “this seems to work, just use it and move on”. The result is that useful debates about substantive issues don’t happen and bikeshedding is all way get to do

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