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The Dark Night of Mathematics

kirwinhampshire.substack.com

21–30 of 321 posts

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#21
The idea of ordering theorems like doordash is funny, kudos to the author for that :-)

Anyway, your "spiritual journey" doesn't matter. We'll automate mathematics because we can, because it's useful. Don't like it? Well, should have not chosen a capitalist economic system that rewards scientific progress so much.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#22
One way to differentiate between an art or a craft and a science is that if a genie appeared and offered to trivialize all the discovery work of your career and simply give you the answers today, and you'd say "no", you're probably not doing science.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the reduction began when you yourself started putting more importance on your enjoyment of the process over the value being provided to your customers. Why would you make this comment? Is it envy? They were able to do things only some people can do. They enjoyed what they did and it provided value. Now the fun has been taken out of it and you seem to be saying that they deserve to have no fun? What should they…

Don't complain that you lose funding if you sacrifice utility for a cirlejerk around craftsmanship. I'm sure there's a programming equivalent. I believe theyre saying don't lose sight of the trees.

Many of my friends are mathematicians, they are saying pretty much the same thing the article is saying. Unfortunately, even the "I have wondered if it is the express goal of these companies to make me kill myself" line I haven't heard for the first time today.

I assure you they're not in it for the money, I make more than they do and hardcore math research is definitely harder than whatever the fuck it is that I do.

I don't think that trying to be a little bit more understanding towards people who are obviously struggling would cost us that much.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#24

This is what locking yourself away in an ivory tower gets you. Do things ‘for beauty’ and watch as they are automated and commoditized by the people who depend on them for their continued wellbeing, reduced to a hobby or sport. But the reduction began when you yourself started putting more importance on your enjoyment of the process over the value being provided to your customers.

Exactly! I have some many colleagues who typically say that they do "math for the beauty" while holding permanent research positions funded by the state.

That seems OK to me. I'd rather live in a state that funds beauty than one that doesn't. Think grants for artists, etc. A strictly practical world is not a good world to live in.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#25

This is what locking yourself away in an ivory tower gets you. Do things ‘for beauty’ and watch as they are automated and commoditized by the people who depend on them for their continued wellbeing, reduced to a hobby or sport. But the reduction began when you yourself started putting more importance on your enjoyment of the process over the value being provided to your customers.

Customers? It's math. This is like a comment a golem built to raise the S&P 500 would write.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#27

This is what locking yourself away in an ivory tower gets you. Do things ‘for beauty’ and watch as they are automated and commoditized by the people who depend on them for their continued wellbeing, reduced to a hobby or sport. But the reduction began when you yourself started putting more importance on your enjoyment of the process over the value being provided to your customers.

It's important to remember that historically many advances have been made without "customer value" in mind. Indeed, freeing oneself from such concerns can open up unexpected avenues for discovery which only later provide "customer value".

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#28

The idea of ordering theorems like doordash is funny, kudos to the author for that :-) Anyway, your "spiritual journey" doesn't matter. We'll automate mathematics because we can, because it's useful. Don't like it? Well, should have not chosen a capitalist economic system that rewards scientific progress so much.

I don't think the author of the article chose what world to be born into.

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#29

> “Even if AI can prove theorems and theory-craft more efficiently than humans, and even if these proofs and theories are beautiful and interesting, and even if they are presented with elegance and clarity of thought, mathematicians will still have a place in the appraisal, presentation, understanding and appreciation of this new abundance of pleasing non-human proofs. We can still practice mathematics, learn mathema…

I think what people find "spiritual" about mathematics is the process, with its creativity and brilliance, ratjer than the final answer. I'd also think it's rather incomparable to a vegetable garden as the amount of effort required and complexity, which drive "spirituality", are of much grander scales. The author believes that llms make mathematics so trivial that mathematicians will no longer be the ones proving but the ones teaching and commentating, taking the "fun" part away in service of money. People will still do what they wabt to do, but one can no longer get by by indulging in what they like to do (math).

Re: The Dark Night of Mathematics

#30

I'm all for this. I don't think mathematics should be done as a profession. If you can't find free time to do it, it's obviously not that important to you. Open source software works pretty well, doesn't it? Why not math?

> If you can't find free time to do it, it's obviously not that important to you. Open source software works pretty well, doesn't it? Why not math?

You do realize that much of a number of vital open source projects are primarily developed by people who are paid to develop it?

> I don't think mathematics should be done as a profession.

Personally, I don't think writing, blogging, acting or singing should be a profession either. But here we are.

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