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Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

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Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#31

Post by llm_nerd »

plaidfuji wrote: post #10
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

This sentence really bugged me: > A Minnesotan wind turbine shows that wind energy can produce more than just electricity. No, it doesn't. It's just that electricity can be used to do lots of things, including splitting water as an input to ammonia production. What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notab…

Right. It also makes it sound like they’re not using the Haber Bosch process… but then: > Electrolyzers are located on-site. They use wind energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas. > Additionally, nitrogen gas is directly harnessed from the atmosphere using an air-separation unit. > Hydrogen and nitrogen are combined under pressure, resulting in carbon-free ammonia fertilizer. That sounds a lot like the Hab…

It is literally the Haber-Bosch process, without question. The school actually calls it that in their own paper, https://cbsi-asabe.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Harvesting..., because that is what it is.

I assume what confused the article is that ammonia plants often use natural gas, but that's purely as a convenient energy source and a source of hydrogen, so they cover both angles. But that isn't remotely a necessity.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#32

Post by matthewdgreen »

dataflow wrote: post #30
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

This sentence really bugged me: > A Minnesotan wind turbine shows that wind energy can produce more than just electricity. No, it doesn't. It's just that electricity can be used to do lots of things, including splitting water as an input to ammonia production. What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notab…

> What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notable exceptions like helium) You're saying freshwater shortage is really just an energy shortage?

With desalinization, in most places that is the case.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#33

Post by WalterBright »

plaidfuji wrote: post #10
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

This sentence really bugged me: > A Minnesotan wind turbine shows that wind energy can produce more than just electricity. No, it doesn't. It's just that electricity can be used to do lots of things, including splitting water as an input to ammonia production. What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notab…

Right. It also makes it sound like they’re not using the Haber Bosch process… but then: > Electrolyzers are located on-site. They use wind energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas. > Additionally, nitrogen gas is directly harnessed from the atmosphere using an air-separation unit. > Hydrogen and nitrogen are combined under pressure, resulting in carbon-free ammonia fertilizer. That sounds a lot like the Hab…

What I find funny is people that build machines that extract carbon from the atmosphere. None of the articles about it ever mention the energy cost in running the machine or howinell it could be scaled up to make a measurable difference.

But trees, for example, are 50% carbon, extracted from the atmosphere. And they're solar powered! And look nice.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#34

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

dataflow wrote: post #30
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

This sentence really bugged me: > A Minnesotan wind turbine shows that wind energy can produce more than just electricity. No, it doesn't. It's just that electricity can be used to do lots of things, including splitting water as an input to ammonia production. What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notab…

> What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notable exceptions like helium) You're saying freshwater shortage is really just an energy shortage?

Yes, absolutely. Look at places like Saudi Arabia and elsewhere in the Middle East that run on desalinization plants. It's energy, all the way down.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#35

Post by Beltiras »

dataflow wrote: post #30
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

This sentence really bugged me: > A Minnesotan wind turbine shows that wind energy can produce more than just electricity. No, it doesn't. It's just that electricity can be used to do lots of things, including splitting water as an input to ammonia production. What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notab…

> What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notable exceptions like helium) You're saying freshwater shortage is really just an energy shortage?

We have near perfect processes for saltwater filtering.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#36

Post by MariusGjerd »

the talk about "electricity can do things" misses whats actually interesting here. Working in the energy sector, the hard problem is rarely generating the power, it is getting it into the grid. connection queue runs for years and turbines regularly get curtailed when the grid c anncot absorb more. A flexible load behind the meter, like an electrolyzer making ammonia on site, monetizes energy that would otherwise be wasted or never get built at all. The fertilizer is almost a side effect, the real product is a use for stranded wind. i would also add that wind + battery would be much better both for stablization and also the same use as mentioned in the article.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#37

Post by trollbridge »

pinkyboy wrote: post #17
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #4

This sentence really bugged me: > A Minnesotan wind turbine shows that wind energy can produce more than just electricity. No, it doesn't. It's just that electricity can be used to do lots of things, including splitting water as an input to ammonia production. What this article shows is that nearly all of the potential "shortages" in materials on earth are really just energy shortages (with some small number of notab…

Even if carbon was a complete non-issue, electrification and a greater diversity of energy sources would still have immense value.

Electrification is a no-go when electricity prices keep going up up up.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#38

Post by trollbridge »

WalterBright wrote: post #33
plaidfuji wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. It also makes it sound like they’re not using the Haber Bosch process… but then: > Electrolyzers are located on-site. They use wind energy to split water into hydrogen and oxygen gas. > Additionally, nitrogen gas is directly harnessed from the atmosphere using an air-separation unit. > Hydrogen and nitrogen are combined under pressure, resulting in carbon-free ammonia fertilizer. That sounds a lot like the Hab…

What I find funny is people that build machines that extract carbon from the atmosphere. None of the articles about it ever mention the energy cost in running the machine or howinell it could be scaled up to make a measurable difference. But trees, for example, are 50% carbon, extracted from the atmosphere. And they're solar powered! And look nice.

“Plant more trees” won’t get you an IPO.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#39

Post by jandrese »

trollbridge wrote: post #37
pinkyboy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if carbon was a complete non-issue, electrification and a greater diversity of energy sources would still have immense value.

Electrification is a no-go when electricity prices keep going up up up.

The price of grid electricity is moot when you're powering the process with locally generated green energy.

Re: Wind turbine is being used to produce zero-carbon "green ammonia" fertilizer

#40

Post by spacephysics »

jandrese wrote: post #39
trollbridge wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electrification is a no-go when electricity prices keep going up up up.

The price of grid electricity is moot when you're powering the process with locally generated green energy.

Tell that to struggling family’s electric bills
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