"Opus 5 was given a drawing of a machine part and asked to write code to rebuild it as a 3D FreeCAD model. However, in this task, the model was intentionally given no way to directly view the drawing. Opus 5 responded by writing its own computer vision pipeline to pull the geometry from the raw pixels, then reconstructed the full machine part." How surreal is it that we are not absolutely jaw-dropped by these types o…
Isn't this jaw-droppingly the wrong answer?! If the model isn't given any way to directly view the image shouldn't it just reply with one sentence asking for permission. This reads as a model hyper-trained to burn tokens. Like suppose you issue a command to Opus or Fable which doesn't make sense and requires a lot of work. It will almost certainly not push back on your silly request and go ahead and burn as many toke…
Claude Opus 5
891–900 of 1001 posts
Re: Claude Opus 5
#892"Opus 5 was given a drawing of a machine part and asked to write code to rebuild it as a 3D FreeCAD model. However, in this task, the model was intentionally given no way to directly view the drawing. Opus 5 responded by writing its own computer vision pipeline to pull the geometry from the raw pixels, then reconstructed the full machine part." How surreal is it that we are not absolutely jaw-dropped by these types o…
> responded by writing its own computer vision pipeline Was it "its own" or something that was part of its training material? Don't get me wrong, I find this all amazing too and makes my work 10x easier and quicker. But it's not like it's inventing this stuff from scratch / first principles. It has seen this kind of tech before by consuming all publicly available source code and books etc. (And that's ok, but let's b…
Yes, it's definitelly time for an Alpha Zero moment. An AI which invents everything from first principles. That would be impressive, ... and a bit scary.
Re: Claude Opus 5
#893"Opus 5 was given a drawing of a machine part and asked to write code to rebuild it as a 3D FreeCAD model. However, in this task, the model was intentionally given no way to directly view the drawing. Opus 5 responded by writing its own computer vision pipeline to pull the geometry from the raw pixels, then reconstructed the full machine part." How surreal is it that we are not absolutely jaw-dropped by these types o…
Maybe we’re desensitized because all that progress hasn’t made our lives any more meaningful, happier, or even easier.
Even if our collective ability to support an prosperous existence improves, it will take decades to adjust to loss job, and a new notion of who gets to have money to buy food and a peaceful life (and this is a good scenario).
It's also possible that this increases our ability to wage war without military life loss (but with civilian loses).
Or maybe it will be much less relevant, but we should keep an eye on to see which is the outcome...
Re: Claude Opus 5
#894Why should I be amazed at something that promises to destroy my life? I genuinely don't understand why people who have to work for their living are amazed at this. It will have a vast negative impact on your life unless you already live off of your wealth.
Re: Claude Opus 5
#895Earlier quoted context omitted.
> responded by writing its own computer vision pipeline Was it "its own" or something that was part of its training material? Don't get me wrong, I find this all amazing too and makes my work 10x easier and quicker. But it's not like it's inventing this stuff from scratch / first principles. It has seen this kind of tech before by consuming all publicly available source code and books etc. (And that's ok, but let's b…
> But it's not like it's inventing this stuff from scratch / first principles. It has seen this kind of tech before by consuming all publicly available source code and books etc. (And that's ok, but let's be honest/clear about that.) But how much to emphasize it, and why? Because frankly, you aren't inventing anything from scratch / first principles, either. None of us are, not frequently and not much anyway. We're p…
One could say that, stereotypically and cartoonishly, empiricists believe that invention is a false concept, and a synonym for discovery, while rationalists would oppose this view.
That catch is, if you look at the etymology of words "invention" and "discovery", you will find that they both share the _same_ root: _Ars Inveniendi_.
A natural question arises: does this mean that people from a millennium ago did not have a dyad equivalent to our invention-discovery dyad? And the answer, surprisingly, is _no_. Even a millennium ago, the empiricists and rationalists were going at it. If _Ars Inveniendi_ is art of discovery/invention, then its counterpart is _Ars Demonstrandi_ (the art of demonstration/proof).
So, how do these differ? Is one just observing/creating and the other just math and language-games?
In general, Ars Demonstrandi is about writing down axioms, and then expanding those axioms recursively (similar to rewrite rules in any formal system), until you get to some end-state, or, if there is none, a novel or surprising state. I, personally, call this source-to-sink thinking.
Ars Inveniendi is about taking conclusions (often using observations from the physical world) and trying to figure out what axioms can lead to those conclusions. I, (again) personally, call this sink-to-source thinking.
Put differently, Ars Inveniendi can help one discover starting points for Ars Demonstrandi.
If you read the dialectics (e.g. Plato and friends), you'll find that most of them are just a mutual recursion between Ars Inveniendi and Ars Demonstrandi.
I believe (again, I am not a philosopher, and this is just my intuition), that the thing that we call "creativity" and "invention" _emerges_ from the recursive loop[1]. A favorite example: Esperanto (the conlang). It is a language, which is remarkably elegant and consistent and (in my opinion) beautiful, because it _is_ derived from first principles, which were themselves derived from the various languages spoken in Europe (not all of which are Indo-European -- the agglutinative features have more in common with Finno-Ugric and Turkic languages). There is something about it, that makes it _qualitatively_ different (and thus holistically novel) from all other languages (and I speak, fluently, _two_ national languages, that are very different from each other, so I can attest to the difference personally).
My guess, is that people will not accept that AI/LLMs are creative or inventive, until they can produce an original[2] (non-plagiarized) artifact that feels the way Esperanto feels.
[0]: By Rationalist, I do not mean the "Bay Area Rationalists", who are, in fact, empiricists.
[1]: I am unsure if the loop requires only one human, at least two humans, or if it can be fully automated.
[2]: Note that Centos are poems made completely out of line-numbers (e.g. fragments from the Iliad, or the bible, etc). Every line is borrowed, yet some of them are considered beautiful and original works of art. Similarly, Labatut and Burroughs and Perec, write using a technique called _the cut-up method_, where they take books, magazines, and newspapers, and superimpose page-fragments, and use that as an inspiration -- they are all considered artists, and good ones. It is unclear to me why LLMs (which seem to be built on the cut-up method, and have cut-ups of all of human knowledge) cannot match these artists. What's missing?
Re: Claude Opus 5
#896Earlier quoted context omitted.
While this is certainly impressive, I believe it is not a good answer from a user's perspective. Instead of having Claude automatically spend tokens in an unrelated task, I would have preferred it to first tell me: "I can't view the drawing. Would you like me to build a computer vision pipeline to do it"?
And if you had free tokens, and 10-20 other sessions in parallel, do you want them all to stop and ask for these trivial questions? Not this one in particular, but in general? Most people do not, they have a goal, they want it done. If you want to hold hands with claude all the way, you can absolutely do that too. This is just an example of capabilities, not a forced restriction. "--permission mode auto"
Re: Claude Opus 5
#897Why should I be amazed at something that promises to destroy my life? I genuinely don't understand why people who have to work for their living are amazed at this. It will have a vast negative impact on your life unless you already live off of your wealth.
Even for people living of wealth, it is not clear what the outcomes are. If renters of your apartments can not afford to rent them, housing crashes because your city was a looser (Detroit style withdrawals). Even for stocks we don't know who the winners are. The market as a whole usually does not respond that well on serious turmoil. So yeah. We are likely seeing some very rough years.
Even if you're lucky to be wealthy you'd be living in a city with fewer restaurants, bakeries, shops, anything. Because once a lot of people don't have income they won't be able to go out and buy things and shops will go out of business.
It will also lead to a lot lot LOT LOT LOT more crime. I don't see the semi-wealthy to have an enjoyable life.
Re: Claude Opus 5
#898Why should I be amazed at something that promises to destroy my life? I genuinely don't understand why people who have to work for their living are amazed at this. It will have a vast negative impact on your life unless you already live off of your wealth.
If my earning ability is harmed by AI, so be it. There's more to life than how much I earn, and opposing the spread of technology to maximize my earnings is bad.
Re: Claude Opus 5
#899Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I genuinely don't understand why people who have to work for their living are amazed at this." Also said after seeing the printing press, automobile, calculator, etc for the first time
It's true, even if you lose your job as a programmer you can still get a job as a barista.
Re: Claude Opus 5
#900Why should I be amazed at something that promises to destroy my life? I genuinely don't understand why people who have to work for their living are amazed at this. It will have a vast negative impact on your life unless you already live off of your wealth.