The small, real, original web • Hacker News Board

Re: The small, real, original web

#31

Post by InsideOutSanta » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 9:29 AM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #30

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation. Twitter's real decline started after the acquisition and its ostensible return to free speech. I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with. That's an excellent example of people's fr…

>I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with As a liberal, not a libertarian, I would say that's a bit reductive. People should have the right to express their political beliefs. The fear of cancellation and potentially losing their job etc isn't conducive to freedom of thought. Yes you individually may…

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying. Isn't calling for boycotts an essential part of free speech and libertarian-style freedom? If libertarians favor small governments and believe that free markets will govern themselves, aren't boycotts exactly how that happens?

Re: The small, real, original web

#32

Post by mghackerlady » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:41 PM UTC

judah wrote: post #14

nkapias wrote: post #8

> And obviously you’ll want a VPN too (skip Mullvad) — Proton’s VPN works fine for that. Why skip Mullvad ? I thought it has a great reputation.

The post author mentions in the comments he doesn't like the politics of the Mullvad and Brave creators. Brave creator Brendan Eich is also the creator of JavaScript, which powers most of the web today. Eich donated to Republicans and pro-marriage causes, yes. The author thinks that should disqualify his tooling from the open indie web. I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era. It’s a p…

Right, but being against gay people isn't exactly the live and let live vision

Re: The small, real, original web

#33

Post by mghackerlady » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:44 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #18

manytimesaway wrote: post #9

Quite ironic to post this on a platform that uses 1/4 of the screen for advertisement and a drowning GDPR prompt. (Also the CSS makes it tedious to read on a computer.) Why the refusal of Mullvad, though?

The Founder of donated to a controversial political party of Sweden. Same reasoning to why we shouldn't be using Kagi because the founder uses Yandex, a Russian state search engine for a data source. Yolo I guess.

At least with kagi it's not like they have a better option. They could go with bing but then they'd just be another bing frontend

Re: The small, real, original web

#34

Post by 627467 » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 1:02 PM UTC

mghackerlady wrote: post #32

judah wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post author mentions in the comments he doesn't like the politics of the Mullvad and Brave creators. Brave creator Brendan Eich is also the creator of JavaScript, which powers most of the web today. Eich donated to Republicans and pro-marriage causes, yes. The author thinks that should disqualify his tooling from the open indie web. I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era. It’s a p…

Right, but being against gay people isn't exactly the live and let live vision

Its funny because its deploying the same broad shunning mechanism the other side is accused of using

Re: The small, real, original web

#35

Post by 627467 » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 1:11 PM UTC

nkapias wrote: post #8

> And obviously you’ll want a VPN too (skip Mullvad) — Proton’s VPN works fine for that. Why skip Mullvad ? I thought it has a great reputation.

Apparently nowadays in this globalized world how a single person opinion on their home country politics in a single election is meant to massively influence 8B people opinion and decision making across then entire planet, cultures and values.

Re: The small, real, original web

#36

Post by benj111 » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 2:22 PM UTC

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #31

benj111 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with As a liberal, not a libertarian, I would say that's a bit reductive. People should have the right to express their political beliefs. The fear of cancellation and potentially losing their job etc isn't conducive to freedom of thought. Yes you individually may…

I'm not sure if I understand what you're saying. Isn't calling for boycotts an essential part of free speech and libertarian-style freedom? If libertarians favor small governments and believe that free markets will govern themselves, aren't boycotts exactly how that happens?

Well as I said, I'm a liberal, not a libertarian. I don't believe in small government or the power of the free market in a political sense. I do believe in freedom of speech and allowing others that freedom, even if I disagree with it.

Punishing others, because they don't enforce your values is anathema to me.

Basically what is being suggested is that if I believe in democracy and freedom, I should be ok with an elected police state. It should be obvious that I can be pro democracy, but anti bad things that come out of that process.

I don't think it would be hypocritical for someone to support freedom or some other value, by removing freedom, or contradicting that value. I support freedom of speech, that doesn't extend to allowing others to lie, especially in the name of removing others freedoms. That doesn't invalidate my views or values.

Re: The small, real, original web

#37

Post by isabelc » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:40 PM UTC

doug_durham wrote: post #3

An alternate framing for these types of "the old web was better" articles is: "I really liked the web better when only privileged, highly educated people could put up content". The reality is that there was a lot of implicit gatekeeping going on in the early web because of the technical hurdles.

Me and all the other poor Kmart shoppers in the 1990s got free Internet access from their "Bluelight" Internet access. Don't know if this was everywhere, but it was a think in the US.

Re: The small, real, original web

#38

Post by itsbczurstupid » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:44 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #19

manytimesaway wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The era of MSN, MySpace and self/ISP-hosted pages didn't feel like gatekeeping at all; sure, there was some privilege involved (internet access still is a privilege in 2026), but there was less shame about attempting stuff.

In the golden era the care wasn't there. I didn't care someone said something offensive. You just kind of shrugged and moved on. It shouldn't be said but hey they did; report & ignore. That's why 4chan is 4chan, Encyclopaedia Dramatica et cetera. Political correctness eventually tainted the internet as then if someone's values were hurt, drama would roll around only fuelling the troll further. This later led to gatek…

[flagged]

Re: The small, real, original web

#39

Post by itsbczurstupid » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:46 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #18

manytimesaway wrote: post #9

Quite ironic to post this on a platform that uses 1/4 of the screen for advertisement and a drowning GDPR prompt. (Also the CSS makes it tedious to read on a computer.) Why the refusal of Mullvad, though?

The Founder of donated to a controversial political party of Sweden. Same reasoning to why we shouldn't be using Kagi because the founder uses Yandex, a Russian state search engine for a data source. Yolo I guess.

[flagged]

Re: The small, real, original web

#40

Post by magic_hamster » Sun, Jul 26, 2026, 5:24 PM UTC

doug_durham wrote: post #3

An alternate framing for these types of "the old web was better" articles is: "I really liked the web better when only privileged, highly educated people could put up content". The reality is that there was a lot of implicit gatekeeping going on in the early web because of the technical hurdles.

For most of the 80s and 90s people didn't care about being online. It was kind of the opposite of gatekeeping, people immediately labeled computer users as geeks, nerds, socially inept freaks, etc. These labels took decades to wear off.

Even if some curious minds got past the stigma, they still had to have an actual reason to go online which for many people just didn't exist until e-commerce and social networks became a thing. And then they had to learn how to use computers. This still wasn't gatekeeping because literally anyone could put in a minimal effort and go online, but effort is the key word here.

It became truly effortless with smartphones and touch screens, but this also reduced interaction to likes and tweets, and users became content consumers to be exploited with ads. This is where we are today.