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If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

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Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#541

Post by bluecalm »

One recent case in point: Google Finance redesign. How anyone signed that off, especially senior engineers supposedly behind it is beyond me. Basic functionality like sorting by column is gone. To add/remove positions you have to talk to the chat box which is very slow and unreliable. No way to just add 200 shares of company X anymore. News/calendar displayed is no longer relevant to your watchlists. Layout is terrible with unremovable AI chatbox and graph that doesn't work (shows wrong amounts) take big part of the screen.

If anything it shows that people exposed to LLMs for the longest lost the most IQ. Googlers had access to Bart preview before LLMs were public so that checks out. I just hope those people don't get to redesign other tools as otherwise we will all need to talk to the chat box to use a calculator or a spreadsheet soon.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#542

Post by MatekCopatek »

dimbletimbers wrote: post #334
Decabytes wrote: post #319

Software quality is tied to the market incentives and always has been. AI isn’t going to make someone care about writing robust software and that is why we don’t see better software all of a sudden. The market doesn’t rewards apps that don’t break on every update, it doesn’t reward cobbling together multiple independent solutions, as opposed to using Microsoft as a one stop shop. If people could have gotten away with…

But maybe that’s bad? Maybe keeping everyone just on the verge of leaving or getting hurt isn’t a good place for society to settle?

You don't have to extrapolate much to conclude that's a general critique of capitalism.

Corporations aim to make the cheapest possible product that still sells because that creates the biggest profit margin.

If we're collectively unhappy with the outcome, that's the core value we need to change.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#543

Post by belZaah »

Mac user for 20+ years now. Helped my mother with two Windows laptops. One would not allow her to reset her pin. Nothing allowed me to do a safe boot, the option to enter the password was just not there. The other wouldn’t connect to her wifi. Switched to an admin account and, after login, am greeted with a black screen, a cursor and nothing else. Yesterday OneDrive just randomly would not sync a specific file. Just wouldn’t.

I could go on. That’s the network effect for you. The only reason I ever touch MS (or Meta or whatever) software is because someone I’m connected to cannot switch. And they can’t switch because others are in the same situation. At some point you don’t have to care any more. There’s no money in working software compared to igniting a massive feedback loop that just can’t stop regardless of if and what you do.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#544

Post by herbst »

inigyou wrote: post #383
xingped wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, this 100%. When I see a "pending update" notification or icon somewhere, the first thing I think is "I don't want to update, they're just going to break something new". I _hate_ updates now. Doesn't matter what software it is, with the small exception of video games. (Except Dead By Daylight. Behavior, the devs, are the most hilariously incompetent devs on the planet, but at least their incompetence is confined…

Factorio or Minecraft change things every update.

I stopped with Microsoft buying minecraft. But before that they didn't change but add things.

I can't remember a single time I was disappointed because something changed.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#545

Post by mgrund »

mrkeen wrote: post #17

I agree that software becoming worse (in some sense) but I don't blame AI. My experiences as a user haven't really changed. Streamers fail to cast to TVs. Browsers are devices which reliably and efficiently propagate red console text and 500s from companies to you. I still see bluescreens on public touchscreens. Uncle Bob nailed one reason why the industry isn't getting better: the growth of programmers is exponentia…

> it seems that nontechnical POs have captured the software lifecycle

Yes, this dynamic has indeed been screwed up in many teams!

In my perspective, you can’t be a good product manager for a technical product without being somewhat technical yourself. You simply won’t understand your product well enough.

The only dynamic where that works is if the product manager acts more as a supporter and challenger to a team lead by an EM or technical lead, but then product manager is probably not the right title.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#546

Post by customguy »

chongli wrote: post #507
customguy wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can solve a puzzle, but what would "eliminating" a puzzle even mean?

Soak it in nitric and sulfuric acid, let it dry, then light it on fire?

A riddle is not a physical thing but okay, let's say you want to destroy an instance of a riddle that is in a book: how do you know it's in that book without looking, and therefore copying the riddle into your own mind? This is known as the Pink Streisand Paradox.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#547

Post by pastel8739 »

mancerayder wrote: post #277

> We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. I actually relate to that. It used to be cool and exciting to update to see what new things are coming for free. I was just looking up what Fedora Workstation 45 might bring. Updates on phones, TV's, cars and non-Linux operating systems on PC's/lap…

I’ve had a little bit of this excitement when an update comes out with Zed. Updates are frequent, and while it’s totally usable it’s still immature enough as a full IDE that the improvements are often something that will directly improve how I use it. So that’s been nice. But this is the only example I’ve had where I’ve felt this in years and years

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#548

Post by consp »

dosisking wrote: post #538
hamandcheese wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. You know what software doesn't fill me with dread to update? FOSS. Proprietary software isn't built for users anymore. But (some) FOSS still is.

Updating glibc is a huge pain. Using a new version of gcc or clang can cause a lot of problems. I try to avoid updating those.

I've had plenty of issues with old bundled GCC compilers which were fixed in later versions. I'm feeling this is a psychological thing, not necessarily software related. (Doesn't invalidate the feeling though)

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#549

Post by puchatek »

jason_oster wrote: post #399
alphazard wrote: post #388

The answer, of course, is that the taste-making apparatus inside the typical tech company is now entirely imposters (non-technical, non-power-users), who continue to LARP as visionaries. The people who notice broken or degraded behavior (devs and power users) and conceive of good designs are not in charge of what goes into the product. So you shouldn't expect it to get better, only to continuously change so that the…

> The solution is to gut your product org, replace management with leading engineers, and hire some of your most fanatic users. They don't need to do anything other than give their opinions, and use the product every day. Put them in a room with your top engineers, and the software will mysteriously get better. I feel like there's this one random comment on HN that should be adopted on its merits alone, but everyone…

Don't blame it all on entrenchment and bureaucracy. Rather show me the engineers who want to become management.

I have thought of the same solution myself before and came to the conclusion that I, for one, wouldn't want to be leading anything even if I had some ideas on why the product sucked.

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