Don't Take the Black Pill [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#141

Post by JuniperMesos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 5:30 AM UTC

sublinear wrote: post #130

dpark wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Everyone who isn't a FAANG or Frontier Lab seem to be absolutely starving for good talent.* I think this is largely a pay gap problem. There’s a bit of prestige involved (why work for random corp’s dev dept when you could work at FAANG) but a huge part is that most those random corps are paying way less. The best talent generally goes where the money is.

I think a much better metric is the results of the compensation, not the peak dollars earned for some narrow window of time. The differences in the cost of living and local economic inflation can become that significant in the long run. I'm not sure I would call an appetite for risk a "talent", or even a natural consequence of talent. If we look at the average case, there are plenty of millennials now turning 40 who…

I'm skeptical that this is true with respect to net worth, given that I have worked at both FAANG and non-FAANG companies and I know what I got paid at one vs the other.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#142

Post by voidfunc » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 5:50 AM UTC

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #113

dpark wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Everyone who isn't a FAANG or Frontier Lab seem to be absolutely starving for good talent.* I think this is largely a pay gap problem. There’s a bit of prestige involved (why work for random corp’s dev dept when you could work at FAANG) but a huge part is that most those random corps are paying way less. The best talent generally goes where the money is.

Sounds like we could fix this if we did a better job of holding FAANG accountable for the sorry state of technology. So many needless social problems have been introduced by technology and it happened on their watch. That prestige... we could poison it. Maybe working at FAANG should be something to be embarrassed of.

The prestige is the total comp not the company. Nobody gives a fuck you worked for Facebook or Google but they do care you made 700K doing it.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#143

Post by andsoitis » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:14 AM UTC

throwawaythekey wrote: post #129

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I have ever encountered anyone who could not write a for loop that got a job as a programmer. I encounter plenty that used a for loop when something else would have been advisable.

I hired a data engineer who was unable write a for loop in their primary language (python). The task was to write a simple sum of a list, but they had to convert the list to a pandas dataframe and then call some series of arcane functions. I originally thought this was just a preference but when I asked them for the simpler version while standing over their shoulder they were unable to do it. They had ~8 years of cla…

You hired someone for a programming role who could not write a FOR loop? Oh dear.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#144

Post by senderista » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:24 AM UTC

nvme0n1p1 wrote: post #114

sporadicism wrote: post #63

I didn't find any of the arguments for optimism compelling, even if I wanted to agree with the talk's message. Free software is about the worst example, as it has inadvertently built the technology that has, more than any other, concentrated corporate power and debased the profession.

What does your alternate timeline look like? Because I'm just imagining if Linux never took off, all internet servers would run Windows or a commercial Unix. That sure sounds like concentrated corporate power to me.

Nah, if it hadn't been for the SCO lawsuit, BSD would have taken Linux's place. The main difference would have been that copyleft licenses probably wouldn't have gotten much traction.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#145

Post by weregiraffe » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:28 AM UTC

joshcsimmons wrote: post #30

leecommamichael wrote: post #28

> “I almost fell into this trap (...) I was raised by conservative Christian parents and thereby had so, so much to learn, and unlearn, in order to date comfortable and confidently. Is this engagement bait? Is this a cultural critique? What is meant to be said here? At any rate, this is the kind of speech which will alienate a lot of people. Look, I'm more on the progressive end of things, I get it, but I think this…

This viewpoint is preposterous to me in the first place. I am Christian. Everything in the world seems to be falling apart these days and my faith is one of the few real-feeling things!

>I am Christian. Everything in the world seems to be falling apart these days

You people have been telling this for the last 2000 years.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#146

Post by JuniperMesos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:37 AM UTC

leecommamichael wrote: post #28

> “I almost fell into this trap (...) I was raised by conservative Christian parents and thereby had so, so much to learn, and unlearn, in order to date comfortable and confidently. Is this engagement bait? Is this a cultural critique? What is meant to be said here? At any rate, this is the kind of speech which will alienate a lot of people. Look, I'm more on the progressive end of things, I get it, but I think this…

It's definitely cultural critique that people who don't agree with his broad political stance will find divisive and mean. I also completely believe that Andrew Kelly is talking sincerely about his own beliefs and experiences, grounded in his own life history - that is, I believe that his own experience is that unlearning some of the conservative Christian values his parents taught him made his own dating life better, at least with respect to the different values he came to have.

I think the lesson here is that you can't divorce a potentially inspiring and positive talk, from the underlying ideological stances that ground that talk, and indeed determine what the speaker thinks count as inspiring and positive. There are a number of points in this talk where I think Kelly's claims that some aspect of computer technology are tempting to blackpill over, are really just that computer technology being useful to people who don't share his political stances. So a listener who doesn't actually share his political stances won't find the argument he is building in those sections of the talk convincing at all.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#147

Post by abetusk » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 6:43 AM UTC

sporadicism wrote: post #63

I didn't find any of the arguments for optimism compelling, even if I wanted to agree with the talk's message. Free software is about the worst example, as it has inadvertently built the technology that has, more than any other, concentrated corporate power and debased the profession.

[0]:

> If you refrain from participating in the software of the commons, the only thing that you're doing is surrendering more of our collective agency to abusive centralized powers.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLZwpH5lCD4&t=1622s

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#148

Post by jagadaga » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 7:03 AM UTC

dang wrote: post #10

jagadaga wrote: post #8

I watched 8 minutes and feel like my time was wasted. Thank you. Yeah, we always knew how to build reliable software, but it's expensive.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive, shallow criticisms? So far all 3 of your comments have been of this sort, and we're trying for more thoughtful conversation here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Note this one: " Don't be snarky. "

No problem. I love you.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#149

Post by flumpcakes » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 7:04 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #27

smalltorch wrote: post #15

Generally agreed with most of the points. Building software that serves you only...and then sharing with others is like serving others. It's good stuff and we need more of it. I'm not sure how the deconversion of his faith needed to be conflated as related to the main ideas, especially when the next point was about weilding technology for good or evil in the next point as if these aren't pre-existing realities of our…

Yeah, I wasn't clear how his (lack of) religion/faith related to the theme. I like personal details shared thoughtfully in conference talks, but he structured the talk as if those details mattered to the overall message.

I think it was trying to find a moral standard that wasn't being set by established places. I think it was showing a level of self-reflection (going through a process of finding your set of principals after leaving an established faith translates very well into questioning the morality of how established software operates).

I did find a few things adventuring into the off topic in the video. Considering all the drama lately and certain opinions that always come out with threads on this person, I was thinking "oh no, people aren't going to like this" while watching, despite broadly agreeing with the substance of the message.

Re: Don't Take the Black Pill [video]

#150

Post by flumpcakes » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 7:10 AM UTC

nvme0n1p1 wrote: post #117

DangitBobby wrote: post #40

I'm much more interested in a realistic bang for your buck discussion about software value for effort and diminishing returns rather than a conversation about whether it's possible to build great software. Also notable that not up for discussion was any second order effects about user interaction with software; software always must serve its user in the immediate first order. Why? I suppose it's because if you attemp…

Yeah, I generally agree with him but there are plenty of fun counterexamples: 1. You go to the DMV to renew your driver's license at a kiosk there. There's a warrant for your arrest. Should the kiosk serve the user directly interacting with it and print out a new license anyway? 2. Grocery store: should a self-checkout serve the user and give them free groceries? 3. ATM: does the user get free money?

I think you are concentrating on 'free' too much here.

It's not about giving away resources, it's about serving the user.

1. No, a kiosk shouldn't be hooked up to some crime database, it should function exactly as expected in situ.

2. A self-service checkout machine shouldn't 'give away' free stuff, it should however let you pay and leave.

3. An ATM should give the user money from their account - without added charge for the convienance.

I think 2 and 3 are bad examples because they actually already exist in the way that Andrew is saying things should exist. If they didn't (for example, they played a 30 second advert before you could checkout) then people would never have started using them.

Software/SaaS/startups are much more inclined to use dark patterns and attempt to bleed the users dry (either their cash or their attention) - established conveniences like self checkout and ATMs on the whole just do their job - the general public would NOT accept it any other way. It's a shame the general public don't share the same sentiment when it comes to more glamorous technology.