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The small, real, original web

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Re: The small, real, original web

#21

Post by nkapias »

ooterness wrote: post #13
nkapias wrote: post #8

> And obviously you’ll want a VPN too (skip Mullvad) — Proton’s VPN works fine for that. Why skip Mullvad ? I thought it has a great reputation.

Previous discussion: "The CEO of Mullvad is the main financer of the Swedish Örebro party" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48717469

Thank you (and everyone else who replied). I wasn’t aware of this controversy.

I wouldn’t express an opinion on the subject, however, I’m glad when information is made public, as it allows everyone to weigh whether it should influence their decisions.

Re: The small, real, original web

#22

Post by bitexploder »

doug_durham wrote: post #3

An alternate framing for these types of "the old web was better" articles is: "I really liked the web better when only privileged, highly educated people could put up content". The reality is that there was a lot of implicit gatekeeping going on in the early web because of the technical hurdles.

AOL existed…

Re: The small, real, original web

#23

Post by Mezzie »

bigbuppo wrote: post #15
doug_durham wrote: post #3

An alternate framing for these types of "the old web was better" articles is: "I really liked the web better when only privileged, highly educated people could put up content". The reality is that there was a lot of implicit gatekeeping going on in the early web because of the technical hurdles.

It took less effort to setup a geocities page than a myspace account.

I had a Geocities page in 1995. I was 6 years old. (I also remember how people were kind of freaked out when they realized us kids were on there.)

I lived in rural MI and neither of my parents had a 4 year degree. I wasn't the kid of someone at MIT or in the Valley. We weren't an impoverished family, but we were somewhere between middle and lower-middle class. We were by far some of the lowest people on the web totem pole, socio-economically speaking, but access wasn't out of the question for people who didn't come from a lot of financial/educational privilege.

Re: The small, real, original web

#24

Post by InsideOutSanta »

judah wrote: post #14
nkapias wrote: post #8

> And obviously you’ll want a VPN too (skip Mullvad) — Proton’s VPN works fine for that. Why skip Mullvad ? I thought it has a great reputation.

The post author mentions in the comments he doesn't like the politics of the Mullvad and Brave creators. Brave creator Brendan Eich is also the creator of JavaScript, which powers most of the web today. Eich donated to Republicans and pro-marriage causes, yes. The author thinks that should disqualify his tooling from the open indie web. I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era. It’s a p…

Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation. Twitter's real decline started after the acquisition and its ostensible return to free speech.

I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with. That's an excellent example of people's freedom of action.

Re: The small, real, original web

#25

Post by vouaobrasil »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #24
judah wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post author mentions in the comments he doesn't like the politics of the Mullvad and Brave creators. Brave creator Brendan Eich is also the creator of JavaScript, which powers most of the web today. Eich donated to Republicans and pro-marriage causes, yes. The author thinks that should disqualify his tooling from the open indie web. I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era. It’s a p…

Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation. Twitter's real decline started after the acquisition and its ostensible return to free speech. I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with. That's an excellent example of people's fr…

> Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation.

I don't think that's really the problem. I think it's just because Reddit and Facebook are too large to work, period - sort of what Kirkpatrick Sale was trying to get at in his book "Human Scale". Global systems of humans connected and interacting are probably doomed to this regardless of what mechanisms are instituted, unless those mechanisms limit in some way the local size of the interaction.

Re: The small, real, original web

#26

Post by stackghost »

gerdesj wrote: post #10
MarkusWandel wrote: post #2

Mostly true but not quite. You can't do email the "old way" because you'll be buried in spam, and even if you can handle that, others who don't do it the old way may never get your mail. You can't put a server on the internet the old way because there is nonstop automated door knocking for security violations. In the old days, the attacks were much less sophisticated and mostly a "gentleman's agreement" meant they di…

I'm still running multiple email systems the "old way". Been doing it for 30 years and don't intend to stop now, both at work and at home. There are a few extra hoops these days to jump through ... but still it moves.

Eh, I used to be in that camp.

I did it the right way. I set up SPF, DMARC and DKIM. I shopped around for a dedicated box with a v4 address that had a clean reputation. I ensured the provider's ASN was also clean. I used a well known TLD. I sent absolutely zero spam. No newsletters no nothing, just regular correspondence.

But I don't send enough emails to keep my IP reputation warm, I think, because deliverability into the big providers like Microslop and Google was very hit and miss. The end result is I would never know if someone just didn't want to reply, or if my message has been silently dropped. It stopped being fun and started becoming a chore and a headache.

Nowadays I pay fastmail to worry about that bullshit. I have more important things to do with my time.

Re: The small, real, original web

#27

Post by InsideOutSanta »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #25
InsideOutSanta wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation. Twitter's real decline started after the acquisition and its ostensible return to free speech. I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with. That's an excellent example of people's fr…

> Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation. I don't think that's really the problem. I think it's just because Reddit and Facebook are too large to work, period - sort of what Kirkpatrick Sale was trying to get at in his book "Human Scale". Global systems of humans connected and interacting are probably doomed to this regardless of what m…

I agree that this isn't the primary issue; my comment was a response to somebody making a specific claim, which is why I highlighted the moderation issues on Reddit and Facebook.

I agree with you that sheer scale is the primary issue, but for a particular reason: these systems are all prime targets for malicious actors intent on manipulating people on a large scale.

Re: The small, real, original web

#28

Post by stackghost »

doug_durham wrote: post #3

An alternate framing for these types of "the old web was better" articles is: "I really liked the web better when only privileged, highly educated people could put up content". The reality is that there was a lot of implicit gatekeeping going on in the early web because of the technical hurdles.

>An alternate framing for these types of "the old web was better" articles is: "I really liked the web better when only privileged, highly educated people could put up content". The reality is that there was a lot of implicit gatekeeping going on in the early web because of the technical hurdles.

First of all, there wasn't much in the way of technical hurdles when it came to myspace or geocities, so I don't buy your premise at all. I was LARPing as a video game reviewer at 10 years old in 1995 with my awful tags/tiled backgrounds/table layouts. I was a dumb kid and still managed to figure it out. So did approximately one squillion of other people.

Secondly, the same tired, obnoxious comment about privilege and technology can be trotted out and applied to the early web, early facebook, early usenet, early IRC, early LLMs, early crypto. What does this comment do to advance the discussion in any meaningful way?

Re: The small, real, original web

#29

Post by benj111 »

judah wrote: post #14
nkapias wrote: post #8

> And obviously you’ll want a VPN too (skip Mullvad) — Proton’s VPN works fine for that. Why skip Mullvad ? I thought it has a great reputation.

The post author mentions in the comments he doesn't like the politics of the Mullvad and Brave creators. Brave creator Brendan Eich is also the creator of JavaScript, which powers most of the web today. Eich donated to Republicans and pro-marriage causes, yes. The author thinks that should disqualify his tooling from the open indie web. I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era. It’s a p…

>I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era

This is a new thing though. I'm on my 40s, you didn't used to expect people to cancel things because you disagreed with the creators politics.

>Twitter were also focused on silencing dissent; so much that they banned a sitting US President.

Should the sitting president get a free pass? For better or worse these platforms do need to have rules. If those rules are to be fair, everyone should be held to the same standard.

Re: The small, real, original web

#30

Post by benj111 »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #24
judah wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post author mentions in the comments he doesn't like the politics of the Mullvad and Brave creators. Brave creator Brendan Eich is also the creator of JavaScript, which powers most of the web today. Eich donated to Republicans and pro-marriage causes, yes. The author thinks that should disqualify his tooling from the open indie web. I find that kind of political gatekeeping fit for a bygone and dead era. It’s a p…

Reddit and Facebook are on the decline because both are full of slop. The problem is undermoderation, not overmoderation. Twitter's real decline started after the acquisition and its ostensible return to free speech. I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with. That's an excellent example of people's fr…

>I should also think that libertarians should be in support of private people deciding not to support companies or people that support causes they disagree with

As a liberal, not a libertarian, I would say that's a bit reductive.

People should have the right to express their political beliefs. The fear of cancellation and potentially losing their job etc isn't conducive to freedom of thought. Yes you individually may not agree and may choose not to support them, but here we have people actively calling on others not to support them, and condemning those who would choose to carry on engaging.

It's very divisive, 'you are either with us or against us'. That is far from any kind of liberty.

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