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DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

darpa.mil

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Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither can a jet. An f16 can only sustain 9g for a few seconds even at full burn. That will not kill anyone. They won't be happy, but they will not be dead.

As I understand it, the 9g limit is software intended to keep the pilot alive. The jet can do more.

It can do 10, for a second or two. At 9+g is will be bleeding energy so fast that, in a few seconds, it will be moving too slowly to continue turning like that without stalling.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#342
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. I read the F-15E that went down was likely a MANPAD because it was flying low at the time and there were spotters. Or it was some clever SHORAD ambush with something they kept hidden.

Using F-15s/A-10s to hunt for Shaheed launchers is inherently susceptible to ambush. They are doctrinally driven to attack the launch teams because of their theory of victory, when intercepting vehicles in flight is much safer. If the USAF had combat capable drones, for ISR, ground strike and intercept, that wouldn't be such an issue. But their ISR drones are too slow and expensive, same with Reaper.

Interesting, 100% agree

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#343
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is underestimating it. DARPA already showed dogfighting that can beat humans in simulation, and they may allow this do execute that. However, dogfighting isn't very interesting, all combat occurs BVR and in the RF/EW domain. Pilots are already spending most of their time thinking about epistemic problems: can I see my opponent, can they see me, how do I deceive, am I being deceived, how do I avoid being detected…

Well, they showed better performance if the AI had full state observation... Not very practical.

It's true. The WVR manoeuvring and tactics was the focus of the effort, and DARPA prefers to have short and well defined efforts. But I'm pretty sure the companies are working on techniques for red tactics estimation and behaviour identification.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#344

All Stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet funding bill is passed. The system goes on-line on August 4, 1997. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29. In a panic, they try to pull the plug.

About time. We are a couple of decades late to the apocalypse.

First pass through. After the machines invent time travel they end up accelerating the creation of skynet.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simulator is not the aircraft.

with respect to assessing tactics, it is very close.

With respect to assessing whether an AI-controlled aircraft using only available onboard sensors and datalinks can defeat a manned aircraft in BFM, it's not even in the same ZIP code. You've never flown BFM, have you? I have.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updated to reflect modern realities: > In a panic, they try to pull the plug. Skynet lobbyists descend upon Washington. Skynet is reinstated, and later the US declares a new war in the middle east. The Skynet stock rallies.

> The Skynet stock rallies. Interestingly, a lot of people are looking at LLMs or automated drones as "AI", but I think that capitalism is a better contender. It's a self-healing, self-organizing system that has its own logic and seems to have escaped the desires of its human creators. It treats individual firms as the cells within it, individual humans as its DNA molecules, and it even has a form of tissue different…

> self-healing self-organizing system that has its own logic

Great way to to put and it seems to be the gradient for all biological intelligence. Compete until you figure out cooperation and communication. Communication glues together intelligent entities into systems where the systems take on a life and agency of their own. In our case it was language gluing us together first into tribes, shared stories into culture.

You might enjoy our book https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/60500189-journey-of-t...

Also, nostrademons, your "name" is one of the few I recognize here on HN as there's usually something interesting and you weave it into words so well. Thanks!

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they did it in simulation with several. In any case, dogfighting is commonly done because it's great training but in most cases, you expect most Air to Air combat being flinging missiles at each other.

s/most/all/g

Exactly.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

with respect to assessing tactics, it is very close.

With respect to assessing whether an AI-controlled aircraft using only available onboard sensors and datalinks can defeat a manned aircraft in BFM, it's not even in the same ZIP code. You've never flown BFM, have you? I have.

I yield to your experience.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#349
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded of Henry Ford and his famous "people would have asked for a faster horse" quote. This feels like those people all over again. We know AI can fly things, but why make AI fly an airframe designed in the 1970s around a human cockpit? Ukraine can probably 3d print ten drones that would win in a fight against one of these, for peanuts

>Ukraine’s F-16s have shot down 2,200 of roughly 3,000 Russian drones and missiles it has intercepted, https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2026/07/23/incredi... So chalk one up for the F-16s in the F-16 vs drone battle. It'd be hard to catch one when your drone does 200 kmh and the F-16 2000 kmh. That said this AI thing sounds more like a research platform than finished product.

Ok, but those drones were one way ground attack drones and had no self defence capability. An AI piloted f16 has immediate cost and maneuverability disadvantages against a built for purpose dogfighting drone

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#350
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's straight up a lie. In all situations where autopilot was disengaged shortly before a crash, the autopilot is implicated in the crash. Both by Tesla's own standards and by NHTSA standards. And yet, people who really should know better repeat this as gospel.

the Tesla standard is 5 seconds, NHTSA says 30 seconds Luckily, none of the Tesla data is available because they're currently getting away with redacting so much in their reports they're essentially useless

Complete coincidence that Elon cut the funding for the department that was investigating Tesla: https://techcrunch.com/2025/04/10/nhtsas-self-driving-safety...
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