Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations • Hacker News Board

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#111

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Jul 24, 2026, 11:45 PM UTC

cwmma wrote: post #32

Is there a term for a product which is really only really for a minority of it's users? Air travel seems like this as most airlines and manufacturers seem to bend over backwards for their wealthy and high margin passengers and basically treat economy class as "fine I guess we'll throw the rest of you in the back" Mobile games seem the apotheosis of this as a lot of games are really about finding whales and any enjoym…

Not aware of a term, per se, but this is typical of many service-related goods, especially in transportation and communications in which the fundamental underlying service (getting somewhere, getting a message somewhere) is not readily differentiated. That's directly applicable to the air-travel example here.

19th century French polymath (economist, engineer, bureaucrat) Jules Dupuit famously described this concerning railway carriage accomodations and the parlous state of third-class carriages:

It is not because of the several thousand francs which they would have to spend to cover the third class wagons or to upholster the benches. ... [I]t would happily sacrifice this [expense] for the sake of its popularity.

Its goal is to stop the traveler who can pay for the second class trip from going third class. It hurts the poor not because it wants them to personally suffer, but to scare the rich.

https://www.inc.com/bill-murphy-jr/why-does-air-travel-suck-...>

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#112

Post by tb99 » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:20 AM UTC

yongjik wrote: post #97

cwmma wrote: post #32

Is there a term for a product which is really only really for a minority of it's users? Air travel seems like this as most airlines and manufacturers seem to bend over backwards for their wealthy and high margin passengers and basically treat economy class as "fine I guess we'll throw the rest of you in the back" Mobile games seem the apotheosis of this as a lot of games are really about finding whales and any enjoym…

> Air travel seems like this as most airlines and manufacturers seem to bend over backwards for their wealthy and high margin passengers and basically treat economy class as ... You got it backwards. If economy passengers preferred better services to cheaper fare, they would have chosen airlines with better services, and airlines would have to adapt accordingly, offering better and more expensive services. They can't…

> If economy passengers preferred better services to cheaper fare, they would have chosen airlines with better services

It's not quite that simple. Unless you fly a lot, it's hard to know about service differences between two airlines -- which has better air quality, more efficient disembarking, fewer recitals of the credit card pitch, etc. Passengers have to make their choices based on the subset of their preferences that they can actually compare, which is a pretty small subset.

Not that price isn't very important! But if I make my decision based on just (schedule, price, luggage policy, seat pitch, seat location), it's because that's all the info I've got.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#113

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:21 AM UTC

cwmma wrote: post #32

Is there a term for a product which is really only really for a minority of it's users? Air travel seems like this as most airlines and manufacturers seem to bend over backwards for their wealthy and high margin passengers and basically treat economy class as "fine I guess we'll throw the rest of you in the back" Mobile games seem the apotheosis of this as a lot of games are really about finding whales and any enjoym…

I don't think it's that. It's just what the mass market wants. For economy-class passengers, the overwhelmingly first-place concern is the price of the ticket. People accept shit service, shit food, random seat assignments, inconvenient timing and connections, etc. all for a cheaper ticket. For some people, the ticket cost is the only thing they care about.

So it's a race to the bottom. Airlines are famously low-margin businesses, so they really have no choice but to save as much money as they can by continually pushing the envelope on what depravities passengers will accept. And as they keep pushing, people complain, but they still eat it up and love the lower prices.

If economy class passengers would actually pay for perks and a nicer experience, the airlines would provide it. And sometimes they kinda-sorta do, via economy plus, premium economy, and similar (whatever the particular airline chooses to call it). But, by and large, people just care about the lowest price, so many planes don't even have mid-range service options, and some airlines don't even offer them at all.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#114

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:27 AM UTC

wat10000 wrote: post #39

pudgywalsh wrote: post #27

Because everyone sleeps soundly with bright blue LED lighting blaring in their faces. I fail to see what's innovative about "we shoved business class seats into a narrow-body aircraft". An A321 is still an A321. Flying internationally in a single-aisle aircraft is under any circumstances torture no matter how you sugar coat it: "Come fly in our modern, innovative sardine can." By the way BA did this years ago with th…

I never understood why the airplane size matters so much to an individual passenger. What's the difference to me, as a standard economy passenger, between flying internationally in an A321 or a 787? I have the same tiny seat either way. My knees are crammed into the next seat's back the same on both. I see this sentiment stated frequently and I just don't get it.

I don't get it either, but my guess is that the narrower plane induces claustrophobia at higher rates. If you're in a widebody, you can look to your left or right (depending on where you are), and see a decent amount of plane on either side of you. Not so for a narrowbody.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#115

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:33 AM UTC

gregdaniels421 wrote: post #19

The first class seats look like a nightmare if you have kids.

Whenever I see kids traveling in first class, it grosses me out a little. When I was a kid, we didn't have the money to fly at all; it was just road trips for us, when we could manage it.

I really think parents putting their kids in first class does them a disservice. And on top of that, if they're at all disruptive, that's incredibly rude to other first class passengers who have paid quite a bit of money for a better experience.

I always think of the early scene in the movie Home Alone when Catherine O'Hara's character asks her husband if they should feel bad about the kids flying coach while they're in business, and he assures her that the kids are fine. That's the right way to do it!

(Before the inevitable "but!"s, yes, I know that won't work super well if you just have one kid traveling with you; it's understandable that you might not feel comfortable with them sitting alone. And of course they need to be of a certain age, or have old enough siblings, to be on their own in that situation. But that's not an excuse to bring your kids up to first or business class. You should be flying with them in economy if they can't sit there on their own.)

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#116

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:34 AM UTC

krunck wrote: post #5

How about seats that are adjustable to fit small people. I'm sick of sitting in seats with concave lumbar regions. It tears up my back. I know, I know, the seats need to accommodate large, more spherical people. Cant there be an adjustable lumbar support though?

Whenever a pillow is included on a flight, I always stuff it behind my lower back. I can't remember the last time I actually used a pillow for its intended purpose when not flying in a lie-flat seat.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#117

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:36 AM UTC

interloxia wrote: post #106

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could consider sitting in an exit row. The seats in front of that row are typically prohibited from reclining in order not to block the exit. Or you can sit behind a bulkhead.

Up to about 15 years ago, Sure. Now you're mostly out of luck unless you pay.

Sure, and if you want a better experience on a plane, you pay more. That seems reasonable.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#118

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:38 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #33

neonstatic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we are voicing seat related complaints, I want seats that don't recline. I don't want that asshole in front of me ruining my flight again.

I don't get the griping with the reclining. I see it all over reddit and here. Never in real life. It has never affected my life in the least bit to have someone in the seat ahead of me recline their seat. It doesn't affect knee room at all. You lose what maybe 3 inches of dead air space if that at the top of their seat.

I'm 5'9", and rarely have a problem with the person in front of my reclining, but I can absolutely see how it could create comfort issues for taller people.

It is more difficult to use a laptop on a tray table if the person in front of you is reclining; you often end up having to angle the screen down to the point where it's not great. In that case I often have to ditch the tray table and put it on my lap, which is less comfortable, but at least lets me angle the screen how I prefer.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#119

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:39 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #103

neonstatic wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only dead space if you are not using it. I like to open my laptop and place it on the tray. When the person in front reclines, I am forced to sit still for the duration of the flight. I usually fly from Europe to Asia, so 10-12 hours.

I'd be baffled if that actually stops you from using a laptop. The seat hardly moves. And the tray slides forward a bit too.

Not baffling at all. When I'm in an economy seat with typical seat pitch, someone reclining in front of me makes it difficult to impossible to use a laptop on the tray table. The recline angle of the seat means you have to angle the screen downward in an uncomfortable way. I'll often end up putting the laptop directly on my lap in that situation, but that creates other comfort/ergonomic issues.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#120

Post by kelnos » Sat, Jul 25, 2026, 12:43 AM UTC

OxO4 wrote: post #44

FergusArgyll wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get this attitude. The seats are meant to recline, as soon as takeoff is finished I recline. If you want more space, you should too.

If you are tall, then no amount of reclining is going to give you more space. The knees are too far forward to stretch your legs, _especially_ when the person in front of you reclines. In other words, you are inconsiderate.

I don't get this "inconsiderate" thing. The seats recline. They're designed to do so. They're allowed to do so. Airlines allow you to recline. Yes, if you're reclining during meal service, you're a dick. But any other time (outside takeoff and landing) is fair game.

If you're tall, pay for economy plus or premium economy. If that's not offered on your route, that sucks, but getting pissed that someone will use their allowed recline space isn't fair of you.

If you want to get mad, get mad at all passengers collectively for treating ticket cost as their only criterion when booking flights.