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Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

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Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#251
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People greatly misunderstand the Indian independence movement. The early Indian activists merely wanted India to have a devolved legislature like present-day Scotland and Wales, or like Canada and Australia used to have. It was relatively late that anyone really wanted independence. I think many of them still wanted to be a constituent state of the UK. People always forget that Gandhi's first actions as a 'nationalis…

Call it freedom or independence or autonomy or dominion or whatever else you want, it doesn’t change the underlying point. Indians wanted it, and Britain denied it. In fact they denied it quite emphatically and violently. Eventually the outcome was decided by geopolitical realities, not a bunch of people shouting slogans.

Britain did not deny it and was actively working towards allowing self-rule in India the entire time. You seem to be saying that Britain denied India independence while at the same time saying Britain allowed an independent India. The two views are fundamentally at odds.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#252
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that did save lives; I was able to know my family had Covid before the symptoms showed up. Happened with a lot of other people too.

Indeed, and it would have saved far more lives if leveraged the app to have hazmat crews come in a forcibly carry the infected to quarantine zones.

Sadly that wasn't possible in the US political climate and maybe a million people lost their lives as a result.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#253
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that did save lives; I was able to know my family had Covid before the symptoms showed up. Happened with a lot of other people too.

Indeed, and it would have saved far more lives if leveraged the app to have hazmat crews come in a forcibly carry the infected to quarantine zones.

I doubt it, unless their hazmat suits are bullet-proof.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#254

> the app enables communication even during network restrictions and creates a substantial risk of misuse by anti-national elements, terrorist organisations, organised criminal groups and cyber criminals seeking to evade lawful detection and continue communication despite legally imposed restrictions. This mouthful boils down to exactly this: a form of communication not controlled by the government creates a risk for…

> Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but if your country's safety depends on ability to block all forms of private person to person messages, your government has failed in one of its primary goals: providing safety for its citizens. Sorry for pointing out the obvious, but "providing safety for its citizens" is not, has never been, and never will be a "goal" of any government on this planet.

Hobbes's Leviathan wants to have a call with you.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, and it would have saved far more lives if leveraged the app to have hazmat crews come in a forcibly carry the infected to quarantine zones.

Sadly that wasn't possible in the US political climate and maybe a million people lost their lives as a result.

[flagged]

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#256
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the Modi and Hindutva project almost entirely, not only politically, but on a personal level coming from a minority community (Christian) in India. However, India is in what basically amounts to a perpetual state of war with Pakistan and has always been this way. India rarely agresses Pakistan and Pakistani terror groups do operate with seeming impunity in India (Pakistan doesn't even maintain a 'no-f…

Largely uncited and generalised exposition of Bangladeshi's misses other factors which could be involved in their decision towards distrust of India. India's initial decisions need not be merely humanitarian but also political. https://scroll.in/article/1081784/why-are-bangladeshis-turni... . This article explains that it's due to an increasingly unequal interactions as sowing distrust. Explaining the Hindutva moment…

> Largely uncited and generalised exposition of Bangladeshi's misses other factors which could be involved in their decision towards distrust of India.

It's reasonable to distrust a neighboring country with distinct interest, even if they went to war for you, sure. You don't owe them anything.

Similarly, it's actually also normal for India to have concerns about illegal migration, similar to Europe, America, Australia, and Canada.

But the propaganda coming out of Bangladesh is purely religious in form, and it's pretty clear that that is the main reason why they dislike India. Pakistan literally slaughtered them and they're all bhai-bhai with them now.

The article cites the CAA as a reason for Bangladeshi distrust, except the data show that India is acting as a humanitarian in this disaster. Non-muslims are physically persecuted in both Bangladesh and Pakistan. Pakistan particularly is an apartheid state where non-Muslims have fewer political rights. Bangladesh is slightly better but violence against non-Muslims is rampant. People like to paint India as having high rates of religious violence, which is true, compared to America, but not true compared to Pakistan or Bangladesh. Pakistan regularly executes Christians for blasphemy. India doesn't. Non-Muslim refugees should qualify for extra protection from secular nations given the on-the-ground realities of South Asia. Literally the cited reason for the creation of Pakistan is that South Asian muslims constitute a distinct nation from every other religion in the subcontinent. Neither the Jews nor the Parsis nor the Christians ever made such an argument.

Well regardless, countries cannot get angry over other countries making immigration policy (and yes, this also applies to Indian migrants to America, blah blah blah)

> Explaining the Hindutva moment as a genuine counter reaction to anti-Hindu sentiment rather than a politically motivated movement seems to be misguided, even if not actively propogating the propaganda.

If you read about the history of Savarkar, then I think this is exactly what you see. He was kind of meh about everything until he witnessed anti-Hindu extremism from Muslims, and then went off his rocker. Before that, he was a relatively benign nationalist and humanitarian. Well anyway, more to the point of it really being just the Muslims, Savarkar was defended by an Indian Christian barrister.

Are you an American or South Asian, out of curiosity? I feel like Americans don't really have the ability translate South Asian politics. Not that I'm some expert, but I can report personal on-the-ground experiences.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point about what Adams is actually arguing! Of course, I know the country was founded as/is a Constitutional Republic, but it's always interesting to see how much our modern (American) understanding of democracy differs from how the founders understood it – and also how they shaped the fact that most of us now equate Constitutional Republic with the best form of democracy.

Define "most" and "us". If us means humans living in democracies, I would say that parliamentary democracy has more supporters and constitutional republics. And even if us == the US, I would argue that most US citizens actually have only a very hazy idea about how their own system of government works, much less how others work. Most of these people think that chanting "USA, USA" in unison is democracy.

> And even if us == the US, I would argue that most US citizens actually have only a very hazy idea about how their own system of government works, much less how others work. Most of these people think that chanting "USA, USA" in unison is democracy.

That's a very dim view of your fellow Americans. I don't have such a dim view myself; there are certainly people who don't care and didn't pay attention in their high school civics classes, but I've found that most people do care and do pay attention. I wonder if your opinion is colored by recent events, and whether you'd have thought the same in 2008?

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#258
post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that taking down an application is making people safe? People are making independent communication networks using reticulum, LORA devices and hold tight - unregistered radio transmitters. You can't seriously argue trying to take down ONE app is acting in the interests of national security?

> Are you suggesting that taking down an application is making people safe? No I'm not. > You can't seriously argue trying to take down ONE app is acting in the interests of national security? Again I'm not. See my replies to all the other comments. I'm only interested in what the OP of the comment I was replying to think governments should be doing. They implied that if this goes on (TFA) then the government is inco…

Ah, okay.

> I'm not condoning this but what would you suggest they should be doing to keep people safe?

That led me to believe you consider request to ban the app as an action in the interest of the general public, making them safe.

I appreciate your response, thanks!

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any instances of the US sending a tourist to jail in another country?

Weren't some of the German tourists last year sent to an ICE camp in Mexico?

Why would there be an ICE camp in Mexico? Maybe you read "New Mexico", the US state.

Re: Government orders GitHub to remove Bluetooth-based chat app Bitchat: Jack Dorsey

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how long it's going to take until we have universal communication monitoring, including in real life. It's not an impossible technical challenge, it's just a question of time. Every spoken word recorded forever and scrutinized. After all forms of distant private communication fall, the spoken word will be the last one remaining. And all these arguments they're making apply to it, too.

> I wonder how long it's going to take until we have universal communication monitoring, including in real life. It's not an impossible technical challenge, it's just a question of time. Every spoken word recorded forever and scrutinized. After all forms of distant private communication fall, the spoken word will be the last one remaining. And all these arguments they're making apply to it, too. There's a lot that sc…

A scenario explored in the prescient and excellent TV show Person of Interest (2011). We're comfortably able to build The Machine and/or Samaritan by now.
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