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If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

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Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#291

Post by gyomu »

You can build software fast, but the more time you take the more you can be confident about it being correct.

This was true already before AI code generation, but AI code generation means the definition of “fast” has shifted like crazy. An experienced engineer can now build in an hour what would have taken them a week.

But it (right now) does nothing for the confidence about being correct - you still have to put in the extra time to ensure the software is correct to your desired degree of confidence.

Unfortunately for people who like their software to be correct (stable, performant, bug free, etc), it seems like way too many software developers right now are happy to take the gains of the former but ignore the tradeoffs of the latter.

(at the same time software quality for mainstream consumer goods like the kind of thing OP complains about in their post has been down the drain for a long time now, and it seems likely many of the examples they give are pre-AI)

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#292

Post by moron4hire »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #155
ndriscoll wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE. It's been great for a long time and only ever gets better. It's as if Windows 7 just continued to slowly iterate and add useful polish. NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 mi…

I actually had to backpedal on my gaming PC from Kubuntu recently, I'm sad to say. The support for the RTX 5080 is just too rough. Every game install was chased by an hour of debugging with Claude to figure out which version of proton to use, which launch arguments to use, which between-system-and-gpu shim profile to use. I grant: The process is much more enjoyable than doing similar things on Windows. Kubuntu treats…

> I actually had to backpedal on my gaming PC from Kubuntu recently, I'm sad to say. The support for the RTX 5080 is just too rough.

What? That has nothing to do with KDE. And Ubuntu is one of the happy paths for driver support. The problem is squarely on either NVidia or overly pretentious commitment to FOSS and only FOSS.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#293

Post by tecoholic »

ndriscoll wrote: post #115
frameset wrote: post #37

> I opened Slack on macOS, the icon kept bouncing in the dock for a few seconds. I got impatient, switched to Ghostty, and started typing. Just then, the Slack window appeared, stole focus from Ghostty and the git pull command was sent to the group chat. One of my absolute favourite features on KDE Plasma with Wayland is the global setting to control what can steal focus. It works wonderfully, and I always miss it wh…

Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE. It's been great for a long time and only ever gets better. It's as if Windows 7 just continued to slowly iterate and add useful polish. NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 mi…

I so want to agree. I have been a Linux user for almost 2 decades now and I still can’t close apps by throwing my mouse on the right top corner and clicking. It works on “KDE apps” and but not on Firefox so I am guessing GTK apps.

The idea that I need to have window decorations and the “GTK window decorations” configured separately is just …

Anyway, the point is it’s never going to be consumer friendly. Office systems managed by IT teams can switch to Linux no problem. People just complain about “weird work computer setup” and move on. But personal laptops aren’t going to be an attractive proposition.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#294

Post by thewebguyd »

mancerayder wrote: post #277

> We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. I actually relate to that. It used to be cool and exciting to update to see what new things are coming for free. I was just looking up what Fedora Workstation 45 might bring. Updates on phones, TV's, cars and non-Linux operating systems on PC's/lap…

> was to bundle all changes in "required security updates."

Kind of...Cumulative Security Updates on Patch Tuesday still do not contain new OS features, and on pro editions of windows you can at least, last time I used Windows (maybe this changed?), still skip quality updates & feature updates.

What Windows does do is tie all the "connected experiences" crap to out of band updates via the store/AppX packages which background update automatically, so when you reboot after a patch windows will run its post update OOBE and push all those features agian/turn them on. So technically not bundled with security updates, but a dark pattern that disrespects users nonetheless.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#295

Post by cherryteastain »

pjmlp wrote: post #226
ndriscoll wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE. It's been great for a long time and only ever gets better. It's as if Windows 7 just continued to slowly iterate and add useful polish. NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 mi…

The problem is that I can't still buy a laptop at Media Markt, or similar consumer store, with a Linux distro pre-installed, and if I could, it would be OEM Linux, just like they do with Android, WebOS, Netbooks, whatever. Outside Internet places like HN, most consumers aren't going to Tuxedo, System 76, or building their own Linux PC. Thus commercial OS platforms keep winning, and the owners are anyway the ones that…

Big PC OEMs offer models with various distros preinstalled. Examples: Lenovo [1], Dell [2]

[1] https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/configurator/cto/?bundleId=21NS...

[2] https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/spd/xps-13-9350-inte...

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#296

Post by hamandcheese »

mancerayder wrote: post #277

> We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. I actually relate to that. It used to be cool and exciting to update to see what new things are coming for free. I was just looking up what Fedora Workstation 45 might bring. Updates on phones, TV's, cars and non-Linux operating systems on PC's/lap…

> > We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse.

You know what software doesn't fill me with dread to update? FOSS.

Proprietary software isn't built for users anymore. But (some) FOSS still is.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#297

Post by inigyou »

Atheros wrote: post #258
purpleflashing wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am adjacent to UX as a field, and, IMO, it’s in deep crisis itself. I don’t know when or how “ergonomics” in tech became “how to sit in front of a computer” and “design” became “creating visual assets” but even people who work in the field often reduce their jobs to simplified and corporate-optimized simulacras. I am less confident about what’s happening in academia but based on my casual browsing, it’s not better.…

Evidence-based UI design maxed out in 1995 with the release of Windows 95. Evidence-based design was popular in all sorts of areas back then. Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994) I think is the gold-standard of set and costume design and the modern cartoon mostly follows that design. Cargo pants were in style. The MTA in New York City used this map[0] which was designed by sociologists and psychologists to be m…

The Office 2007 ribbon was also evidence-based.

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#298

Post by StilesCrisis »

throwawayffffas wrote: post #266
StilesCrisis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact, I am pretty sure most of the examples he lists predate AI. Mac OS apps stealing focus certainly does. Horrible laggy car infotainment systems--hard to say without any specifics, but I've certainly had the same experience pre-LLMs. I've navigated the LG website pre-LLMs and it was busted then too.

The complaint is not the focus stealing the complaint is the lag of the chat application starting. So the problem in this case is electron and all the shit that slack has bolted on on startup because "who cares about start up time, everyone has it on all day."

Electron also predates LLMs by a wide margin though!!

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#299

Post by thewebguyd »

ndriscoll wrote: post #115
frameset wrote: post #37

> I opened Slack on macOS, the icon kept bouncing in the dock for a few seconds. I got impatient, switched to Ghostty, and started typing. Just then, the Slack window appeared, stole focus from Ghostty and the git pull command was sent to the group chat. One of my absolute favourite features on KDE Plasma with Wayland is the global setting to control what can steal focus. It works wonderfully, and I always miss it wh…

Yeah the obvious answer to software getting worse is to switch to FOSS. Use Linux/KDE. It's been great for a long time and only ever gets better. It's as if Windows 7 just continued to slowly iterate and add useful polish. NixOS has a longstanding issue where library loading (and therefore program start, particularly GUI programs that load a lot) is n^2, but programs still all start in ~1 second or less on my n100 mi…

KDE is great, but

> The computer also just obeys me. It does exactly what I tell it to, and nothing more.

Is the biggest benefit and point. You can toss whatever UI/workflow style you want on top of pretty much any distro. I absolutely cannot stand the loss of user agency on modern software/operating systems. I have to use both macOS and Windows at work and I hate them almost equally (I hate windows a little more than I hate macOS, but because of Microsoft's behavior, not because of the UI).

I feel like every piece of commercial software and OS now is like Blizzard "You think you do, but you don't"

Re: If coding has been solved, why does software keep getting worse?

#300

Post by lofaszvanitt »

mancerayder wrote: post #277

> We’ve reached a point where an update to macOS — or to any app I rely on, really — is a source of dread rather than excitement. I now expect the new version to be worse. I actually relate to that. It used to be cool and exciting to update to see what new things are coming for free. I was just looking up what Fedora Workstation 45 might bring. Updates on phones, TV's, cars and non-Linux operating systems on PC's/lap…

AI is here, time to create something new and shiny.
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