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Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

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Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#71

Post by decafninja »

Johnny555 wrote: post #66
dingaling wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Premium Economy is so much more expensive than steerage class that it's not a realistic 'option' for the majority of potential passengers. > " OK well you made your choice...." The only choice for most people is "fly cheap" or "don't go".

The parent poster said "Economy plus", not "Premium Economy". And while the names are confusingly similar, Economy Plus is usually a seat with extra legroom (but no additional width) and is a small price bump, but Premium Economy is a larger wider seat with generous recline (but not lay-flat), and is a large price increase, sometimes approaching business class pricing.

Also adding to confusion is that different routes (and distances) have different hard products.

"Premium economy" on an international long haul flight is often the same (or very similar) seat as "first class" on a domestic flight.

I've recently been blessed with being able to afford flying on lie-flat seats (international business class). That said, I've found what you are calling "economy plus" to be the sweet spot.

You get slightly more leg room, but also priority boarding so that you don't have to worry about getting your bag gatechecked. It's also only slightly more expensive than main cabin regular economy.

"Premium economy" is significantly more expensive, and while you do get a bigger seat, it's not lie-flat. You can recline more, but the few times I've flown it, you are still able to piss off the passenger behind you when you recline with all the shenanigans that can entail. Thus I find it not worth the premium.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#72

Post by FireBeyond »

dingaling wrote: post #53
wat10000 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth remembering that the airline market is very competitive and this happens because it matches consumer preferences. Yes, nobody wants to be crammed into a tiny seat. But given the choice between a large seat or a tiny seat that costs $5 less, people reliably choose to save $5. The only reason the experience is so miserable is because the flying public will accept nearly anything to save a little money. It's…

Premium Economy is so much more expensive than steerage class that it's not a realistic 'option' for the majority of potential passengers. > " OK well you made your choice...." The only choice for most people is "fly cheap" or "don't go".

Flying LAX to SYD and return in Delta Premium Select, at least 30 of the 40 seats wer empty, despite economy being full. I was curious about this, and learned that Delta had made a decision to largely stop bumping passengers up in many cases because they felt that they were passengers who would have paid for PS, but it had gotten to the point of passengers taking their chances ("I'll buy a Comfort Plus ticket, that usually gets me upgraded, and is cheaper.")

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#73

Post by nickff »

seanosaur wrote: post #10
krunck wrote: post #5

How about seats that are adjustable to fit small people. I'm sick of sitting in seats with concave lumbar regions. It tears up my back. I know, I know, the seats need to accommodate large, more spherical people. Cant there be an adjustable lumbar support though?

Any time you say "adjustable" the manufacturer and operator only here "heavier" which translates to "more expensive to operate."

The manufacturers are willing to put in whatever seats the operators want, and airlines want to have the lightest, most compact seats possible because that allows them to offer the lowest price, which is what passengers choose.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#74

Post by plantain »

cwmma wrote: post #32

Is there a term for a product which is really only really for a minority of it's users? Air travel seems like this as most airlines and manufacturers seem to bend over backwards for their wealthy and high margin passengers and basically treat economy class as "fine I guess we'll throw the rest of you in the back" Mobile games seem the apotheosis of this as a lot of games are really about finding whales and any enjoym…

K shaped economy.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#75

Post by camgunz »

neonstatic wrote: post #64
asdff wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get the griping with the reclining. I see it all over reddit and here. Never in real life. It has never affected my life in the least bit to have someone in the seat ahead of me recline their seat. It doesn't affect knee room at all. You lose what maybe 3 inches of dead air space if that at the top of their seat.

It's only dead space if you are not using it. I like to open my laptop and place it on the tray. When the person in front reclines, I am forced to sit still for the duration of the flight. I usually fly from Europe to Asia, so 10-12 hours.

What if you also recline?

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#76

Post by FireBeyond »

pudgywalsh wrote: post #27

Because everyone sleeps soundly with bright blue LED lighting blaring in their faces. I fail to see what's innovative about "we shoved business class seats into a narrow-body aircraft". An A321 is still an A321. Flying internationally in a single-aisle aircraft is under any circumstances torture no matter how you sugar coat it: "Come fly in our modern, innovative sardine can." By the way BA did this years ago with th…

> Because everyone sleeps soundly with bright blue LED lighting blaring in their faces.

Apropos of anything else, and leaving aside intensity, almost all of the research into blue light and sleep points to it having nearly no effect. Maybe less surprising when one of the earlier corporate proponents of this was Luxottica who just saw another opportunity to make money.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#77

Post by FireBeyond »

infecto wrote: post #25
gregdaniels421 wrote: post #19

The first class seats look like a nightmare if you have kids.

In what way? So many international first class seats are similar to this already. Either there is a massive barrier between seats or separated.

Qatar's 777s have a fairly good setup, where the middle business class rows can be turned into something of a pod, with separators removed in both axes so you can have four people in a 2x2 facing each other setup...

... for a cost.

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#78

Post by neonstatic »

camgunz wrote: post #75
neonstatic wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only dead space if you are not using it. I like to open my laptop and place it on the tray. When the person in front reclines, I am forced to sit still for the duration of the flight. I usually fly from Europe to Asia, so 10-12 hours.

What if you also recline?

This only works if you are okay with developing neck issues

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#79

Post by kqr »

camgunz wrote: post #70
fragmede wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The safety, even on the budget airlines is amazing. You wonder though, if they sold seats for $50, to get to the other side of the world, but you had a 10% chance of dying, how many people would take it.

Nilay Patel (I'm gonna get this slightly wrong) has this story where he was talking to an airline CEO about standing-only tickets and the guy said "I know two things. If we did standing-only tickets we'd get roasted by the public, and those tickets would need the most popular tickets by far."

This was RyanAir's CEO. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/feb/28/ryanair-sta...

Re: Latest Airbus single aisle aircraft innovations

#80

Post by cpgxiii »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #62
cpgxiii wrote: post #26

Not covered: the inevitable even-smaller lavatory to further insult the dignity of the flying public. At this point, the designers of narrow-body interiors should be actively shamed for how hostile they have made lavatory designs. In a world in which every major flying population is aging and more overweight, yet every generation of airplane lavatories is even narrower and less accessible for everyone.

Lavatories are seen as a waste of space because they cannot seat passengers in it. A regulation is required when the incentives are misaligned with the reality.

Indeed, regulation is the only way to protect passengers from market greed here, but the airplane makers play a critical role in what designs they make available to airlines. Airbus and Boeing both like to market their newer designs and interiors in terms of passenger comfort (lower cabin altitude, reduced noise, larger windows, etc) so clearly they (and their customers) understand that passenger comfort justifies spending somewhat more than the bare minimum. And given past designs (and designs still fitted in widebodies) they very much know how to build useful lavatories.

I suspect in time there will actually be safety consequences to the continued downsizing of airplane lavatories. There are already a number of serious incidents that have been caused by fluid leaks from galleys and lavatories (IIRC Quantas came pretty close to losing a 747-400 due to a kitchen leak leading to massive water intrusion into the main electrical/avionics bay - once you end up pouring large quantities of water on your avionics all bets are off about the systems failures that will happen and you are well beyond any backup/redundancy that has been designed in, and during the 60s and 70s the USAF experienced serious corrosion of flight control cables on C-130s due to urine "leakage"). Too-small lavatories basically guarantee that water and urine are going to end up in undesirable locations and at best they will cause expensive interior corrosion and at worst they will cause serious corrosion to the airframe or critical equipment.

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