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Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

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Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#131

Post by Zakis1 »

audunw wrote: post #125
atombender wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original Zig code is metaphorically one big unsafe block. Even if the Rust port is made up of 3% unsafe blocks, that still means 97% of the original Zig code has been made safe (in the Rust sense).

Since they did a one-to-one translation to start with, hypothetically, if these were the true numbers, you could probably get a static analysis tool to guarantee you that 97% of the zig code was safe and tell you which of the 3% were unsafe. Zig has a lot more syntax and conventions to encourage safe code compare to C after all. It just doesn’t have way to mark which parts are safe or unsafe. An LLM could probably al…

No you cannot get a static analysis tool to guarantee 97% of zig code was safe. Well, you can - the tool is called the borrow checker.

Do you know what's infinitely cheaper and faster than an LLM running nightly reviews of all of the code and infact mathematically provable that the code (and any new code) is memory safe? It's called the borrow checker.

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#133

Post by evertheylen »

Also highly relevant project: Cruller, also uses the pre-rewrite Bun codebase but focuses only on the runtime part for production.

Link: https://ziggit.dev/t/cruller-buns-zig-runtime-continued-on-z...

Discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49017344

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#134

Post by bunderbunder »

skeledrew wrote: post #115
bunderbunder wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one’s interesting to me because it speaks to both sides of the debate. Yes, safe Rust is good for catching those kinds of errors at compile time. But also, it should theoretically be very easy for a compiler to avoid those problems in Zig, too, if you are using the language the way it wants to be used. Which, from what I’ve experienced so far, does seem to take a whole lot more effort if you’re using a coding ag…

> using the language the way it wants to be used. This sounds like just the coding conventions dependency they're trying to avoid.

Yup. But that also gets to the “they’re both right” angle. Zig’s convention may not be how the Bun developers wanted to work, but it’s a good choice for the kinds of projects Zig is designed for. Which overlaps a bit with, but isn't the same as, Rust’s intended use cases. For example, I might rather go with the Zig philosophy if I’ve got hard memory constraints and want to avoid dynamic memory allocation.

Which, ironically, is something I’d love for my browser’s JavaScript runtime to do. But I can also respect others not wanting that.

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#135

Post by JackSlateur »

andsoitis wrote: post #54
adithyassekhar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bun is the slop

Why do you say Bun is the slop? Does it lack utility?

(without having the answer from GP): your two questions are fully unrelated: first is about long term, second is about only "now".

To try a metaphor: "Why would you grow crops ? Do you lack food on your table ?"

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#137

Post by rapind »

arendtio wrote: post #106
quantummagic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. The only way to use it is to be a very religious person. You have to pray every single time you use it that your system doesn't become compromised.

But isn't this a problem with the ecosystem and not with the program? I mean, with yarn / etc., you have the same problems, don't you?

pnpm is generally safer and had the age delay much sooner than npm as well.

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#138

Post by yunwal »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #128
williamdclt wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well so far we've been using humans to clean up the code that humans ruined in the first place, it's hardly a logical fallacy

The pearl clutching about AI is insane to me, as if code quality was perfect before 2022. We have been seeing a decline in software quality for a long time coming now. A lot of AI hatred is not even based on seeing something genuinely bad, its just prejudice for the sake of prejudice. If I could view into two parallel worlds, one where I vibe code something, release it and tell people it's vibe coded, and another whe…

> "Hey, I know you're leaning on the AI a bit, but here's what's wrong with the code: ...."

I'm generally in agreement, but I think current corporate/productivity culture and AI is a bad mix that makes this quote/sentiment feel impossible. All of the current incentives are set up to push out as much sloppy code as possible, and AI is the perfect machine for doing that in huge quantities, to the point where reviewing all of it is impossible. It's not really AI's fault (imo). There's plenty of ways to use it to design more elegant, understandable, maintainable systems. But unfortunately that's going to take a cultural shift, and part of that cultural shift involves people pushing back against AI as it's used today.

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#139

Post by epolanski »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #36
epolanski wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the present and future, willingly or not. Engineering is about design and plan and architectural integrity and qa. Not writing code anymore.

> Not writing code anymore. If you were an L6+, it was already not really about that. It's kind of amazing to me that people think the only thing engineers do and the only value they bring is writing code.

I have no idea what an l6 is, is this a big corp rat race thing?

Re: Buz – A fork of Bun using modern Zig, with sub-1s incremental builds

#140

Post by nateb2022 »

maccard wrote: post #22
wsdn wrote: post #12

> To this end, LLMs will be used extensively to deslop... So we're using LLMs to clean up the code that LLMs ruined in the first place? We’ve reached peak tech in 2026.

I’d say I fall in the “AI skeptic but willing to use it” category. If LLMs can actually clean up after themselves it would actually be a game changer.

I'm assuming based on the special unicode angled quote marks that this is copy/pasted from an AI? I don't understand why people would type a lot more into an AI just to copy a comment this short, which would be at least 10x faster to just type by hand.
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