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India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

arstechnica.com

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Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#31

Post by MobiusHorizons »

londons_explore wrote: post #25
MobiusHorizons wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 stages is certainly a lot more than most rockets, but most rockets don’t use solid rocket stages. Solid rocket motors are generally much more reliable/ simpler than liquid fueled stages, but they can’t be throttled or turned off early which makes it hard to achieve precise orbits. My guess is the extra stages allow for better control by carefully choosing when to light the next stage. The scout family of rockets ar…

Don't you need at least a little thrust ~40 mins later to circularize the orbit? Obviously solid rockets can't be relit. Could that be the use of the 4th stage?

Good point! The final stage being liquid would also give them more control to fix any errors with the orbit.

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#32

Post by londons_explore »

zbentley wrote: post #10

And with $160MM in funding at a $1.1B valuation? I don't know about their debt, but to get to LEO in 8 years on that little money is extremely impressive.

I wonder what their cost-per-launch will end up being?

Can they compete with reusable American rockets for $/kg by just building disposable but very cheap rockets?

After all, plenty of other disposable things have outcompeted non disposable versions... Diapers... Pens... Lighters... Vapes...

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#34

Post by bell-cot »

londons_explore wrote: post #22
zbentley wrote: post #10

And with $160MM in funding at a $1.1B valuation? I don't know about their debt, but to get to LEO in 8 years on that little money is extremely impressive.

If you do all the work in India, you have low materials costs and low labour costs.

True, but:

Consider how many rocket development efforts squandered 10X to 100X the money, and >8 years, without making it to orbit.

Using solid fuel for their first 3 stages also makes it far easier. I'd take that as evidence of their management wisely picking a good shape for the org's learning curve. Vs. chasing the long-odds bragging rights & likely heartbreaks of a liquid-fuels-only version 1.0.

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#35

Post by itissid »

There is just so much that can go wrong with rocket launches if you do cursory reading about these things. A few random examples: The lowest stage cant just be "turned down" or modulated because they work by burning an inner solid rubber lining that's like an annular cylinder. The first three stages are roughly doing the job sequence: `lift off the ground -> reach target altitude -> reach target orbital velocity` and each stage is modulated for atmospheric pressure, gravity. Another limit is you can't really design it for a human in the middle(like a jet plane), so the rocket's computer needs to do everything, and when the rocket's pitch or yaw or roll(in a manner of speaking) go off beyond a nominal range its game over.

ISRO has a very good track record of launching rockets with solid state engines. I do wonder if almost all of their expertise was used for the first three stages(and they are not 3d printed)? And how much more difficult it is to make the last stage as compared to the first three, which as I understand, was the stage designed and tested by skyroot itself(manufactured by Wipro 3D).

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#37

Post by zbentley »

londons_explore wrote: post #22
zbentley wrote: post #10

And with $160MM in funding at a $1.1B valuation? I don't know about their debt, but to get to LEO in 8 years on that little money is extremely impressive.

If you do all the work in India, you have low materials costs and low labour costs.

Somewhat, but rocket engineering has some upward cost pressures that offset the savings from being in India: expertise is expensive even adjusting for the cost of labor (many staff are likely competing on salary with the rest of the world--rocket engineers/scientists are in high demand with lots of likely sponsors for immigration); aerospace materials/fabrication have a pretty global supply and patent chain even given how big and diverse India's industrial base is; safety and engineering tolerances are incentivized to meet global standards (many prospective launch/payload customers and investors are international), and so on.

I'm no expert, but I suspect that even if you apply a generous discount for being in India, Skyroot's economics are still quite impressive.

Edits: clarity

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#38

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

walrus01 wrote: post #12

The first, second and third stages all being solid rockets also means India now has a global-range ICBM, with only a little bit of modification needed to make it storable in a silo. Privately developed, but I would be astonished if the Indian military isn't well aware of this new capability.

India has had ICBMs for decades now.[1]

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agni-V?wprov=sfla1

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#39

Post by literalAardvark »

zbentley wrote: post #37
londons_explore wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you do all the work in India, you have low materials costs and low labour costs.

Somewhat, but rocket engineering has some upward cost pressures that offset the savings from being in India: expertise is expensive even adjusting for the cost of labor (many staff are likely competing on salary with the rest of the world--rocket engineers/scientists are in high demand with lots of likely sponsors for immigration); aerospace materials/fabrication have a pretty global supply and patent chain even give…

Rocketry is tightly controlled by ITAR, so mobility is lower than you'd expect for a high value field.

Re: India's first privately-developed rocket reaches orbit on debut launch

#40

Post by mayama »

walrus01 wrote: post #12

The first, second and third stages all being solid rockets also means India now has a global-range ICBM, with only a little bit of modification needed to make it storable in a silo. Privately developed, but I would be astonished if the Indian military isn't well aware of this new capability.

India has developed ASAT, which is arguably more complicated that ICBM, agni series, they developed. India routinely understates ranges and appear non threatening. Agni5 and 6 are genuine ICBM, and with little tuning could reach anywhere in the world. India's bureaucracy and MEA is beset with gandhian mindset who try to avoid confrontations and minimise belligerence, opposite of PRC wolf warriors I guess.
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