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Ah, the Codeberg Drama

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Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#41

Post by Levitz »

jackb4040 wrote: post #35
microtonal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is of course in the right of voting members to do this. However, it undermines Codeberg as a stable repo hosting platform. If you are hosting a repo there for an open source project, it may suddenly be in violation after a whim of the voting members. The signal is now that Codeberg is an activist platform. That is fine, but that makes it unfit for many projects that want a largely neutral hoster. Just as they are…

> Just as they are free to do this, I am free to move It doesn't seem like you're amicably moving your projects away. It seems like you're going around tech forums arguing with the democratic decision and fear-mongering about how legitimate projects will be removed next.

>fear-mongering about how legitimate projects will be removed next.

Fear-mongering?

What were legitimate projects are getting removed already. This is not fear-mongering, it's just not being incredibly shortsighted.

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#42

Post by tom_ »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #37
zero_shift wrote: post #25

I want to ask this in good faith Why do the very vocal "AI people" online have this thing where they are simultaneously: - proclaiming their thing to be inevitable and massive and a bulldozer of productivity; - responding to any negative reaction like they are almost like a persecuted group It seems paradoxical to me. If your LLM-written project is so amazing, who cares about the critics? Let them have their corner o…

It's not good faith if you start right away by defining a group of people called "AI people" and then putting words in their mouths. Starting your comment by saying "in good faith" doesn't make it in good faith. Making straw-men is not honest debate. And what you're not mentioning here is that there are people who actually felt they had their own corner of the Internet, didn't/don't consider themselves "AI people", j…

I assume "AI people" is in quotes to indicate that it's kind of a term of art. Like Car People. Or Computer People. Some visible, bothersome subset of the (much larger (like, how many people these days don't use a car? (ok, so it's not zero, but it's hardly the opposite either))) category of people that use the thing in question.

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#43

Post by tclancy »

Ekaros wrote: post #30
zero_shift wrote: post #25

I want to ask this in good faith Why do the very vocal "AI people" online have this thing where they are simultaneously: - proclaiming their thing to be inevitable and massive and a bulldozer of productivity; - responding to any negative reaction like they are almost like a persecuted group It seems paradoxical to me. If your LLM-written project is so amazing, who cares about the critics? Let them have their corner o…

And also if AI is so great creating your own community or place to host stuff should be trivial. Zero effort really. So I really see no reason to co-opt existing place. As they are already making money with AI so hosting costs are really nothing either. So there is no excuses not to have their own free community.

Seriously. And you know they would want hookers and blackjack anyway, so why don't they? Maybe because blackjack has fairer odds than the games they rig.

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#44

Post by cmrdporcupine »

tom_ wrote: post #42
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not good faith if you start right away by defining a group of people called "AI people" and then putting words in their mouths. Starting your comment by saying "in good faith" doesn't make it in good faith. Making straw-men is not honest debate. And what you're not mentioning here is that there are people who actually felt they had their own corner of the Internet, didn't/don't consider themselves "AI people", j…

I assume "AI people" is in quotes to indicate that it's kind of a term of art. Like Car People. Or Computer People. Some visible, bothersome subset of the (much larger (like, how many people these days don't use a car? (ok, so it's not zero, but it's hardly the opposite either))) category of people that use the thing in question.

That's still making a strawman?

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#45

Post by logifail »

jackb4040 wrote: post #35
microtonal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is of course in the right of voting members to do this. However, it undermines Codeberg as a stable repo hosting platform. If you are hosting a repo there for an open source project, it may suddenly be in violation after a whim of the voting members. The signal is now that Codeberg is an activist platform. That is fine, but that makes it unfit for many projects that want a largely neutral hoster. Just as they are…

> Just as they are free to do this, I am free to move It doesn't seem like you're amicably moving your projects away. It seems like you're going around tech forums arguing with the democratic decision and fear-mongering about how legitimate projects will be removed next.

> It seems like you're going around tech forums arguing with the democratic decision and fear-mongering about how legitimate projects will be removed next.

If we're going to argue that a platform is free to make decisions, aren't its [ex-]users also free to make decisions, too?

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#46

Post by orwin »

To whom it may concern: codeberg is explicitly _not_ for private repo and your ai game pet project. It's aim is to host FOSS tools and libraries.

To me, this is a good decision. I already got burned by an Asdf 'clone' that was in rust and allegedly lightweight. Never again I will install on my computer a rust-written tool written in a month that merge 5 pr per day. I know what to look for now, but IMHO having a platform where those kind of projects are forbidden is great. If an AI generated tool is so great and wonderful I cannot miss it, I will get it from word of mouth.

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#47

Post by Defletter »

logifail wrote: post #45
jackb4040 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just as they are free to do this, I am free to move It doesn't seem like you're amicably moving your projects away. It seems like you're going around tech forums arguing with the democratic decision and fear-mongering about how legitimate projects will be removed next.

> It seems like you're going around tech forums arguing with the democratic decision and fear-mongering about how legitimate projects will be removed next. If we're going to argue that a platform is free to make decisions, aren't its [ex-]users also free to make decisions, too?

Yes obviously, and they've already said that. What they're pointing out is that people are being petulant whiners about it. If we can all agree that Codeberg is free to make its decisions, and a decision has been made that you don't like, then just choose another provider. Going around slandering Codeberg is being a petulant whiner.

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#48

Post by zero_shift »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #37
zero_shift wrote: post #25

I want to ask this in good faith Why do the very vocal "AI people" online have this thing where they are simultaneously: - proclaiming their thing to be inevitable and massive and a bulldozer of productivity; - responding to any negative reaction like they are almost like a persecuted group It seems paradoxical to me. If your LLM-written project is so amazing, who cares about the critics? Let them have their corner o…

It's not good faith if you start right away by defining a group of people called "AI people" and then putting words in their mouths. Starting your comment by saying "in good faith" doesn't make it in good faith. Making straw-men is not honest debate. And what you're not mentioning here is that there are people who actually felt they had their own corner of the Internet, didn't/don't consider themselves "AI people", j…

If I said "AI enthusiasts" would that feel like less of an attack?

> I think you're being dishonest in your framing

Asking without malice: why are you telling me this?

This is an open internet forum. You can suspect my sincerity but also, I can suspect yours.

Neither of us can ever prove we mean what we say. We just have to muddle on and ignore anything we think is trolling

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#49

Post by cmrdporcupine »

zero_shift wrote: post #48
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not good faith if you start right away by defining a group of people called "AI people" and then putting words in their mouths. Starting your comment by saying "in good faith" doesn't make it in good faith. Making straw-men is not honest debate. And what you're not mentioning here is that there are people who actually felt they had their own corner of the Internet, didn't/don't consider themselves "AI people", j…

If I said "AI enthusiasts" would that feel like less of an attack? > I think you're being dishonest in your framing Asking without malice: why are you telling me this? This is an open internet forum. You can suspect my sincerity but also, I can suspect yours. Neither of us can ever prove we mean what we say. We just have to muddle on and ignore anything we think is trolling

Because having been "voted off the island" and having to spend the last 3 days grinding away reworking my entire documentation, release process, community outreach, and hosting situation, I am naturally irritated by people then mischaracerizing motives about why I and others might be complaining? And then having the nerve to try to bucket me in some fictitious category of AI people to justify these aspersions? And then having the nerve to frame it as fair presentation.

"AI enthusiast" is an equally crude word for people who happened to use a tool in authoring their project.

That answer your question?

Or maybe you don't actually have stakes in this situation and don't understand why people who put their passion into their projects might be frustrated? Or does your bucket of "AI people" not include people who put heart and soul into their work?

You asked the question in your opening comment and framed it as "fair question", so I'm not sure why you're surprised by the answer.

Re: Ah, the Codeberg Drama

#50

Post by [deleted] »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #49
zero_shift wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I said "AI enthusiasts" would that feel like less of an attack? > I think you're being dishonest in your framing Asking without malice: why are you telling me this? This is an open internet forum. You can suspect my sincerity but also, I can suspect yours. Neither of us can ever prove we mean what we say. We just have to muddle on and ignore anything we think is trolling

Because having been "voted off the island" and having to spend the last 3 days grinding away reworking my entire documentation, release process, community outreach, and hosting situation, I am naturally irritated by people then mischaracerizing motives about why I and others might be complaining? And then having the nerve to try to bucket me in some fictitious category of AI people to justify these aspersions? And th…

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