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Patreon laying off 20% of staff

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Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#121

Post by ryandrake »

apical_dendrite wrote: post #17

There are so many contradictions in this statement that either the person who wrote it is completely muddle-headed, or just a bad liar. > Nothing about our core business has changed – it remains strong and consistent a few paragraphs later > But our transformation is going to take time and the next paragraph > At the same time, the market in which we operate has undergone profound change over the last 6 months. We ne…

AI prompt: “Write a melodramatic layoff announcement that blames our problems on vague market/economic changes, suggests we need to transform, yet reassures investors that business fundamentals are strong.”

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#122

Post by keiferski »

codegeek wrote: post #42

The only possible positive thing out of this cringy article is that the severance is decent (for a US company). 4 months of pay and healthcare coverage through Year end. Everything else could have just been a couple of sentences. Companies need to stop doing this melodrama every time they decide to fire people. Everyone knows the goal is to make money and keep a company profitable for their shareholders. Why these me…

Because part of being a CEO is having social skills, and doing what you suggested is extremely socially inept.

Explaining why layoffs needed to happen, expressing remorse about it, and giving a good severance package is what serious adults with empathy for their employees do.

It's also a good way to maintain at least a neutral relationship with everyone you're laying off. Compare that to a company that coldly fires you with minimal severance, and delivers that message via some low-level lackey (not the CEO) – you, as the former employee, want nothing to do with that company ever again.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#123

Post by smeeth »

apical_dendrite wrote: post #17

There are so many contradictions in this statement that either the person who wrote it is completely muddle-headed, or just a bad liar. > Nothing about our core business has changed – it remains strong and consistent a few paragraphs later > But our transformation is going to take time and the next paragraph > At the same time, the market in which we operate has undergone profound change over the last 6 months. We ne…

Nothing in there contradicts. A business that works well today may not work well tomorrow; it's management's job to change the business to better meet future conditions.

> or do you think that you'll need fewer humans because AI will be doing more of the work?

My bet is this one. To be fair, it isn't exactly an unpopular opinion. If I were starting a business today I'd plan to hire far fewer programmers than I would have just 2-3 years ago.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#124

Post by keiferski »

codegeek wrote: post #92
K0balt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because, and I say this as a person who has made these calls, some leaders do feel a genuine responsibility for the people that work for them. Perhaps too, the ones that don’t, want people to think that they do. But as a founder and CEO by far the most emotionally taxing thing I have ever had to do is cut staff for the good of the company. You want to treat people the way you would want to be treated if you were…

I am a founder/CEO myself (a very small company so I don't have experience of mass layoffs for full disclosure). However, I don't get this explanation. If you feel genuine responsibility for the people, then figure out a way to NOT fire them. Or be honest and admit that the company needs to make more money/cut costs. Trust me, no one wants to hear "we love you so much but we have to fire you and I feel so bad". It ju…

This is a good idea in theory, and in a lot of situations it's definitely under-used. But I don't think it's realistic to expect companies to never have to lay off employees.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#125

Post by jbellis »

codegeek wrote: post #42

The only possible positive thing out of this cringy article is that the severance is decent (for a US company). 4 months of pay and healthcare coverage through Year end. Everything else could have just been a couple of sentences. Companies need to stop doing this melodrama every time they decide to fire people. Everyone knows the goal is to make money and keep a company profitable for their shareholders. Why these me…

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion on HN, but a job isn't an output that companies produce, it's an agreement to compensate an employee in exchange for services, and just as the CEO shouldn't take it personally when one leaves to go work elsewhere, nobody needs to act like it's some kind of invidious social contract violation when the company no longer needs some of those services. In other words: resignation and termination are ordinary exercises of each's right to reallocate its resources.

(I am making a normative claim, not a descriptive one; I am aware that that both CEOs and laid-off employees do in fact take it personally at times.)

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#126

Post by 999900000999 »

K0balt wrote: post #70
codegeek wrote: post #42

The only possible positive thing out of this cringy article is that the severance is decent (for a US company). 4 months of pay and healthcare coverage through Year end. Everything else could have just been a couple of sentences. Companies need to stop doing this melodrama every time they decide to fire people. Everyone knows the goal is to make money and keep a company profitable for their shareholders. Why these me…

It’s because, and I say this as a person who has made these calls, some leaders do feel a genuine responsibility for the people that work for them. Perhaps too, the ones that don’t, want people to think that they do. But as a founder and CEO by far the most emotionally taxing thing I have ever had to do is cut staff for the good of the company. You want to treat people the way you would want to be treated if you were…

As someone who has been laid off or fired a few times. Just tell me when my last day is and cut my check.

At this point I assume every employer wants to screw me in one way or another.

My first salaried job replaced me behind my back since I went remote to look after a dying family member.

Corporations by definition are sociopathic entities. They can not ‘care’ about anything aside from maximizing profits.

Once I was on a call receiving the bad news and I immediately texted another job opportunity right then and there.

We’re not family , and we’re definitely not friends.

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#128

Post by stronglikedan »

ryandrake wrote: post #105
codegeek wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a founder/CEO myself (a very small company so I don't have experience of mass layoffs for full disclosure). However, I don't get this explanation. If you feel genuine responsibility for the people, then figure out a way to NOT fire them. Or be honest and admit that the company needs to make more money/cut costs. Trust me, no one wants to hear "we love you so much but we have to fire you and I feel so bad". It ju…

It reminds me of that meme template. “I feel responsible for this layoff.” “Responsible enough to mitigate it or lay yourself off?” “Well, no, not that responsible…”

What an illogical and unrealistic meme template that is...

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#129

Post by dylan604 »

codegeek wrote: post #92
K0balt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because, and I say this as a person who has made these calls, some leaders do feel a genuine responsibility for the people that work for them. Perhaps too, the ones that don’t, want people to think that they do. But as a founder and CEO by far the most emotionally taxing thing I have ever had to do is cut staff for the good of the company. You want to treat people the way you would want to be treated if you were…

I am a founder/CEO myself (a very small company so I don't have experience of mass layoffs for full disclosure). However, I don't get this explanation. If you feel genuine responsibility for the people, then figure out a way to NOT fire them. Or be honest and admit that the company needs to make more money/cut costs. Trust me, no one wants to hear "we love you so much but we have to fire you and I feel so bad". It ju…

> then figure out a way to NOT fire them

like reduce the salary of the c-suite staff by 50% so they are only making 300% more than the average workers. or reduce c-suite salary to the lowest wage while allowing them to live off of their stock and other benefits like company cars, expense accounts, etc. granted, that's for the larger companies, but the bigger companies never do anything like that

Re: Patreon laying off 20% of staff

#130

Post by ecocentrik »

nightski wrote: post #94
K0balt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s because, and I say this as a person who has made these calls, some leaders do feel a genuine responsibility for the people that work for them. Perhaps too, the ones that don’t, want people to think that they do. But as a founder and CEO by far the most emotionally taxing thing I have ever had to do is cut staff for the good of the company. You want to treat people the way you would want to be treated if you were…

These posts seem more like emotional therapy for the founder, helping them cope. It's not about the people being let go at all.

You should really look into who Jack Conte is and why he created Patreon. He's a smart guy who relies heavily on maintaining a positive social image and is more emotionally aware and stable than most tech founders. I imagine from his perspective the decision, severance and post were all just the smart thing to do.
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