The sentiment seems to be that this is unique to Germany but is there any country that can rival China in manufacturing?
> is there any country that can rival China in "Government subsidized" manufacturing?
FIFY
German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
31–40 of 63 posts
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
The assumption that Europeans can just absorb high energy prices is crazy. Ought to be a national imperative to invest in infrastructure to lower prices.
The problem there is the "national imperative" part imho. All EU politicians are hell-bent on ignoring any kind of market-based solutions, doing everything through regulations and picking winners. So there will never be a proper market equilibrium and therefore prices will always be higher than in places without all those regulatory interventions. Investment won't help there in any way, because if that investment wer…
Also all the regulations are based on hardcore ideologies. EU truly wants to be carbon neutral and that is applaudable, but at what cost is the question. Does is make sense to decimate most of the energy heavy industries in the continent to be carbon neutral? I guess only time will tell.
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem there is the "national imperative" part imho. All EU politicians are hell-bent on ignoring any kind of market-based solutions, doing everything through regulations and picking winners. So there will never be a proper market equilibrium and therefore prices will always be higher than in places without all those regulatory interventions. Investment won't help there in any way, because if that investment wer…
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. There is currently a lot of demand for building out solar and wind in Germany. There is also large demand for building battery storage. The demand especially for the latter comes from the mismatch between supply and demand in electricity markets, so in a sense the battery operators hope to do arbitrage in a way that will also increase the efficiency of the market…
It would be a market-based solution if the state wouldn't interfere with the markets in major ways. E.g. many battery projects in Germany are nonviable due to the fact that some less-efficient but cheaper battery technologies are verboten. Meaning the market gets screwed again. There are also fees and taxes on power transit that are set up in such a way that energy storage is disadvantaged compared to energy production, especially gas-based energy production. Hydro storage e.g. is comparable to gas peaker plants in the quickness of powering up/down, but hydro storage pays transmission fees twice, once to charge, once to discharge...
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#34so sad to see Germany's fall right in front of our eyes.
As the brits would say, write off Germans at your own peril. They survived two world wars and still became the biggest economy in Europe, so time would tell if they would be able to turn the tide around for a 3rd time
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
My guess is OP was being sarcastic.
You can never know. People in Germany have wildly divergent takes on what would be good for the country right now and some things that are acceptable to say in mainstream circles seem batshit insane to me.
Isn't that freedom of speech?
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say. There is currently a lot of demand for building out solar and wind in Germany. There is also large demand for building battery storage. The demand especially for the latter comes from the mismatch between supply and demand in electricity markets, so in a sense the battery operators hope to do arbitrage in a way that will also increase the efficiency of the market…
It would be a market-based solution if the state wouldn't interfere with the markets in major ways. E.g. many battery projects in Germany are nonviable due to the fact that some less-efficient but cheaper battery technologies are verboten. Meaning the market gets screwed again. There are also fees and taxes on power transit that are set up in such a way that energy storage is disadvantaged compared to energy producti…
What battery technologies are banned???
While being good except for efficiency?
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#37Rip German industry. Gerhard Schroeder was a good Chancellor.
Schroeder lobbied for Germany to remain dependent on Russian gas. Huge net negative in the long run.
At the time it was a perfectly rational decision that followed the liberal foreign policy dogma of the time, which advocated that we tie up unstable countries with economic trade, so they become less incentivized to create havoc. Let's please not rewrite history.
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#38The sentiment seems to be that this is unique to Germany but is there any country that can rival China in manufacturing?
> is there any country that can rival China in "Government subsidized" manufacturing? FIFY
It’s not just government money. Factory workers wages in China are still a lot lower than western countries, and they have a lot fewer labor rights.
Also, the government hinders as often as it helps, since they can always take over an industry or make it’s CEO disappear if they feel like it.
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#39The sentiment seems to be that this is unique to Germany but is there any country that can rival China in manufacturing?
Many can, they just choose not to. They balance the economy different instead of going all in on manufacturing and export. They don't suppress domestic consumption, have strong labor protection laws etc.
Let me rephrase you: “many could…“. Because if you don’t manufacture continuously you loose knowledge. It’s more than buying machinery and hiring labor. Manufacturing is continuous improvement process. Improving raw materials, manufacturing parameters, testing technology. When one stops it it’s game over.
Re: German battery maker Varta files insolvency applications
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Schroeder lobbied for Germany to remain dependent on Russian gas. Huge net negative in the long run.
Genuinely curious, what alternatives were there in the 2000s? Did dependency on Russian gas doom German manufacturing or did it provide it 20 additional years of artificial life support?
The alternative was to aggressively pursue nuclear power.