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For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

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Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#31

Post by plusmax1 »

BoxwoodSeed wrote: post #29
wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

EVs are great in, say, Norway. But the population of the country Norway isn't even half that of the city Tokyo. Less people means less cars on the street which translates to less cars using up charging stations. Once things get crowded and you have to wait in line to get your vehicle charged, it becomes a bit annoying.

Well, I live in one of the most densely populated places, the Netherlands. This is not an issue I've encountered. The solution really is : just add more charging spots everywhere. Electric infrastructure is everywhere, charging spots don't need to be concentrated near a gas station. Here in the Netherlands they are everywhere. You just have to get into the habit of using them more often for smaller periods of time instead of habitually going to a gas station.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#32

Post by jjav »

wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back.

Seriously?

EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know.

But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion.

Sometimes in life, passion matters too.

I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit.

But for when I want to feel alive and drive (cue up Red Barchetta by Rush), no EV will ever do.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#33

Post by Gys »

jjav wrote: post #32
wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. Seriously? EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know. But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion. Sometimes in life, passion matters too. I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit. But for when I want to feel alive and drive…

Back in the day, in my EU country, everybody drove shift gear. Automatic gear was frowned upon. Nowadays everybody drives automatic. People like ‘boring’ comfort, it shows everywhere.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#34

Post by euroderf »

wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

If electric lawnmowers offered the same value, operational convenience, and maintainability (compared to gas-powered mowers) as electric cars do, they'd sell like hotcakes. Two-stroke engines are a PITA.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#35

Post by ZeroGravitas »

euroderf wrote: post #34
wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

If electric lawnmowers offered the same value, operational convenience, and maintainability (compared to gas-powered mowers) as electric cars do, they'd sell like hotcakes. Two-stroke engines are a PITA.

I thought this already happened?

I kept seeing YouTube videos of people reviewing electric chainsaws or snowblowers or whatever and apologizing to their core audience that they weren't woke Democrats, it was just a better tool for many uses.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#36

Post by surgical_fire »

jjav wrote: post #32
wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. Seriously? EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know. But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion. Sometimes in life, passion matters too. I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit. But for when I want to feel alive and drive…

What you are describing for an EV sounds like the perfect car for me. Perhaps I should make the switch. I would have last time I switched cars, but I couldn't find a reliable answer if the resell value of EVs was good.

I drive begrudgingly because where I live the public transportation is subpar, and there's no bike lanes (God I miss the Netherlands).

Owning and driving a car for me is pure utility, I have as much passion for it as I have for my dishwasher. I mean, I like my Toyota, it is comfortable and reliable. But it is really just a means to go from point A to point B. I want my car to be an appliance.

I wonder if many are like me or if most want their cars to be anything else.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#37

Post by jonathanlydall »

jjav wrote: post #32
wood_spirit wrote: post #9

My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect th…

> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. Seriously? EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know. But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion. Sometimes in life, passion matters too. I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit. But for when I want to feel alive and drive…

You seem to be in the ICE enthusiast category, which is likely a minority of car owners.

For most people though, if they are buying a car it's because they can't practically get by without one, so things like "soul" and "character" of the car are irrelevant and actually an anti-feature if it makes the car cost more to own than an EV option which does the job perfectly well and is possibly even better in terms of features and comfort at the same TCO.

A bit like the unfortunate decision of Sony deciding to discontinue physical PlayStation discs was likely inevitable based on the market clearly preferring to move away from them [0], I suspect it's inevitable that sales of EVs will ultimately completely dwarf, if not entirely replace, ICE cars. If the range issue is solved (admittedly not a certainty), ICE cars could become relegated to usage only by enthusiasts like yourself and once the last generation who grew up with ICEs dies out, will probably be as common as a horse drawn cart.

[0]: https://bsky.app/profile/matpiscatella.bsky.social/post/3mrd...

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#38

Post by RhysU »

Gys wrote: post #33
jjav wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. Seriously? EVs have many practical advantages. Don't need to list them here, we all know. But they are so, so, so boring. Zero soul, zero character. Perfect appliance, zero passion. Sometimes in life, passion matters too. I like an EV for city commuting because commuting is boring no matter what so it's a good fit. But for when I want to feel alive and drive…

Back in the day, in my EU country, everybody drove shift gear. Automatic gear was frowned upon. Nowadays everybody drives automatic. People like ‘boring’ comfort, it shows everywhere.

The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society (https://tmgps.org/) is a notable counterexample.

I look forward to teaching my kids to drive stick. Stick makes driving more engaging then automatic's point-and-go. Engagement breeds attentivity. Texting while driving stick is obviously decreased because both hands are actively required to drive. None of their friends will be able to drive my manual car. I don't know why anyone would hand their kid the keys to an automatic given its downsides.

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#39

Post by wood_spirit »

RhysU wrote: post #38
Gys wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the day, in my EU country, everybody drove shift gear. Automatic gear was frowned upon. Nowadays everybody drives automatic. People like ‘boring’ comfort, it shows everywhere.

The Manual Gearbox Preservation Society ( https://tmgps.org/ ) is a notable counterexample. I look forward to teaching my kids to drive stick. Stick makes driving more engaging then automatic's point-and-go. Engagement breeds attentivity. Texting while driving stick is obviously decreased because both hands are actively required to drive. None of their friends will be able to drive my manual car. I don't know why any…

Likely your kids cars will drive themselves?

Re: For most US drivers, EVs offer emissions benefits and cost savings

#40

Post by apparent »

650REDHAIR wrote: post #22
apparent wrote: post #11

How do they account for the cost of having to rent ICE vehicles for road trips that do not suit EVs (some do, and some do not)? Do they factor in the cost of insurance, which some say is much higher for their EVs? I have owned PHEVs and like them quite a bit, but if I'd bought them new I still wouldn't have reached the payback period. It seems that a PHEV typically costs $12k more than the ICE version, so the payback…

What road trips are you taking frequently enough that an EV just won’t work?

There are lots of articles written by journalists where they tried road tripping in an EV. Sometimes it worked out great, especially when their vehicle had a lot of range and could charge quickly. Other times it was a disaster.

One does not need to take frequent vacations for the cost of renting a vehicle to really add up. If you went for a week, twice a year, that could be a thousand dollars right there.

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