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98.css

jdan.github.io

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Re: 98.css

#101

Post by fodkodrasz »

preg_match wrote: post #92
deathanatos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent? No, > Remove the control when there is no way for users to enable it That guidance is unhinged, and is exactly the anti-pattern that upthread points to that needs to die. Removing the control is like gaslighting the user: they're looking for "how to do X?" and documentation, Internet searchable screenshots, and, god help us, now AI, are pointing them at a button that does not exist. I cannot tell you how m…

I agree, just gray it out and have a little question mark button next to it. Also, way more question mark buttons. I don’t care how well named people think things are. They’re not, and there’s always some hidden behavior you just have to know behind every setting. Include the question mark.

Or even better than question mark (for me): hover text with explanation.

Re: 98.css

#102

Post by inigyou »

hdjrudni wrote: post #76
spaghettifythis wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multi-row tabs are the primary thing I dislike about old UIs. You never seem to see them anymore, for which I am immensely grateful. Not only do they take up valuable vertical space, but they way the rows jump around always confused more than it really should have - a button shouldn't move after I click it, especially if it is representing state.

As opposed to tabs that either (a) get so small they're illegible, or (b) scroll off the screen so they're no longer accessible? The moving tabs issue we can fix but just not moving them. And the vertical space issue is much less of an issue now than it was then because we have higher resolutions but the answer to that is to start closing tabs when you can no longer see your content. It's like a quiet little nag that…

The selected tab has to be on the bottom row for the visual metaphor to work, that's why they move.

Re: 98.css

#103

Post by fodkodrasz »

nitin7 wrote: post #94
zemo wrote: post #33

unjokingly I think the fact that we removed grayed out buttons for "the button just doesn't appear" is one of the more confusing UI trends of our day and the sight of a grayed out button warms my heart

I think the button shouldn't appear if the user doesn't have the access to do it (eg. not an admin, has view rights only, etc). However, if the user can and they expect to do it, but is in a mode/state which doesn't allow them to do it, greyed out buttons absolutely. In some cases, greyed out buttons should be clickable (eg. forms) and that should tell the user what is wrong. Looking at you, billion dollar airline, w…

> Also, what happened to hover messages and little (?) marks? Every software behaves like it expects me to know what to do from Day 1.

I truly hate fast-food kiosks for this reason: most expect me to be familiar with their offerings and the menu system of that kios. I relatively rarely visit such places and I was better off with a human asking me 1-3 short questions and paying. I'm not paid to know this shit, I'm the customer. Guess I'm just too old, younger people love this crap for some reason.

Re: 98.css

#104

Post by xboxnolifes »

nitin7 wrote: post #94
zemo wrote: post #33

unjokingly I think the fact that we removed grayed out buttons for "the button just doesn't appear" is one of the more confusing UI trends of our day and the sight of a grayed out button warms my heart

I think the button shouldn't appear if the user doesn't have the access to do it (eg. not an admin, has view rights only, etc). However, if the user can and they expect to do it, but is in a mode/state which doesn't allow them to do it, greyed out buttons absolutely. In some cases, greyed out buttons should be clickable (eg. forms) and that should tell the user what is wrong. Looking at you, billion dollar airline, w…

I agree for admin stuff, but certain lack of permissions hiding stuff is annoying. It's nice for things to be disabled and have a hover text explaining why it's disabled. Also, yes, (?) and hover text in general is severely underused in popular software.

I wish every button or menu option that has a shortcut would show me its shortcut on hover or in-place so I didn't have to find it in the manual or buried in the settings menu.

Re: 98.css

#105

Post by inigyou »

cube00 wrote: post #36
zemo wrote: post #33

unjokingly I think the fact that we removed grayed out buttons for "the button just doesn't appear" is one of the more confusing UI trends of our day and the sight of a grayed out button warms my heart

Microsoft had some excellent guidance[1] on this: > Reconsider disabled controls. Disabled controls can be hard to use because users literally have to deduce why they are disabled. Disable a control when users expect it to apply and they can easily deduce why the control is disabled. Remove the control when there is no way for users to enable it or they don't expect it to apply, or leave it enabled, but provide an er…

Not just this one. It seems like all usability guidelines have been forgotten. The guidelines that remain are not for usability.

Re: 98.css

#106

Post by fodkodrasz »

jhoechtl wrote: post #95

I do not understand efforts like these. It's not that 98 Windows UI design has been the paramount of UX. Today's technology bloat and layer upon layer of abastractions caused a total bloat. Understanding what is required to make a good UX site, and idenifying the minimum neccessary technological components is it.

You are right, Windows 2000 was the peak of UI design. Since then everything is getting worse, the rounded corners and floating margins being one example. The MacOS and web-designer influences were detrimental to usability.

Re: 98.css

#107

Post by inigyou »

nitin7 wrote: post #94
zemo wrote: post #33

unjokingly I think the fact that we removed grayed out buttons for "the button just doesn't appear" is one of the more confusing UI trends of our day and the sight of a grayed out button warms my heart

I think the button shouldn't appear if the user doesn't have the access to do it (eg. not an admin, has view rights only, etc). However, if the user can and they expect to do it, but is in a mode/state which doesn't allow them to do it, greyed out buttons absolutely. In some cases, greyed out buttons should be clickable (eg. forms) and that should tell the user what is wrong. Looking at you, billion dollar airline, w…

What if the user is an admin but isn't logged in as one, and that's why he can't press the button?

Re: 98.css

#109

Post by dataAI »

jordanscales wrote: post #23

Author here! This was my burnout recovery project and holds a place near and dear to my heart. https://notes.jordanscales.com/98-css-reflections

I've also once experienced burnout, a book called Pedram Shojai: The Urban Monk has kept it away since. It's practical, not religious. Highly recommend it!

Re: 98.css

#110

Post by M95D »

jordanscales wrote: post #23

Author here! This was my burnout recovery project and holds a place near and dear to my heart. https://notes.jordanscales.com/98-css-reflections

> I no longer work on 98.css and I haven’t in a really long time. My only contribution to the project is monitoring the repo for high-quality pull requests. If I get one, I briefly scan through the author’s profile to make sure they’re not going to mine cryptocurrency on my user’s machines, and then I give them full commit access. “Looks good, go ahead and merge this yourself.”

Very nice!

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