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Writing by hand is good for your brain

nealstephenson.substack.com

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Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#521

Post by left-struck »

girvel wrote: post #67

I like writing by hand, but I don’t agree with the logic that it’s good because it recruits more areas of the brain. The less effective the medium is, the more of the brain it will recruit; chiseling on a stone tablet is probably a more complex task and it probably gives a more broad stimulus to the brain, but it does not mean it’s such a good idea. I would personally prefer to use a text editor for effective writing…

I agree that “more areas of the brain” does not mean better necessarily, however I do wonder about the chiseling stone thing.

If you chiseled some formula or something into stone you’re unlikely to forget it any time soon. I wonder if forcing yourself to ruminate over something a bit longer than it takes to type it, in a way that can actually hold your attention or repeatedly bring it back to the topic, doesn’t indeed help.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#522

Post by podocarp »

crdrost wrote: post #393
calf wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok then please explain why Socrates is better than margin notes for an assumed purpose, because that is not reasonable common knowledge. If by that you meant to suggest that for formal study, some kind of self-review process combined with cold written practice/rehearsal sustained under interleaved spacing, then that is likely the gold standard for comprehension and memorization. But most people don't even know that,…

You are correct that the reference is a little obscure -- if my memory serves it's Plato's Phaedrus . Plato argues, in a book, in the voice of his mentor Socrates, that books will destroy knowledge. And the reason is precisely to do with the thing that Socrates is famous for, his Socratic Method of asking his students (or rival politicians or anyone) questions about what they claimed to know, engaging them in a real…

That's actually kind of very similar to a passage in Zhuang Zi (ancient Chinese philosopher). He recounts this tale about a king and a wheel maker. The wheel maker asks what the king is doing, and the king proclaims he is reading. The wheel maker then goes on to inform the king how those books are just the trash of the ancients, and how he could not teach his son how to make a proper wheel, and the art "comes from the hand and is met by the heart". So anything that can be put down in books is certainly not true wisdom.

It also coincides with the Taoist philosophy (and actually somewhat Buddhist) of learning through actions and not speech. The most famous (if I recall the story correctly) of the Buddha teaching his disciples by smiling and twirling around a flower.

Kind of fascinating that these faraway places kind of arrived at the same ideas. Independently or not I think nobody would know but it does not matter.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#523

Post by annzabelle »

dhosek wrote: post #519

On the gadget front, I really love the paperlike screen protector for the iPad. This combined with the Apple Pencil made a huge difference in the usability of my iPad for writing/drawing. I still prefer to write on paper, but it’s really great for things like my writing group where we generally meet over zoom & I can give the author a marked up manuscript (with multicolor notes). I’m also opposed to getting too preci…

I think you're right. It's very easy in any hobby to make the gear side of the hobby be disproportionate to how much you actually do the hobby. Think someone who's spent $3k on camping gear and constantly researches gear, but rarely camps. On the other hand, if you do actually camp a lot, it is nice to have the lighter weight higher performance gear, up to a certain point. So, Stephenson, as someone who does actually write a massive amount, is right to be using high performance gear, but for someone just getting started, getting into fancy pens/paper is a distraction from actually writing.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#524

Post by crazygringo »

annzabelle wrote: post #509
crazygringo wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I hand write taking notes, I am indeed forced to slow down, and it's maddening. I'm busy trying to figure out how to condense the ideas into something I can quickly write, and in the meantime the lecturer is continuing and I've missed something important they've just said. I genuinely do not understand how people find it helps them to handwrite notes in a lecture. If I type on my laptop, I can do that "mindlessl…

Writing notes by hand feels like it etches the concepts into my brain in a way that listening alone does not. Typing does not have the same feel. I have never learned how to do something substantially difficult (math, foreign language, any science, or memorizing a substantial amount of content for a humanities course) without handwriting it. I remember in 8th grade latin, I copied down conjugation charts onto a chalk…

I'm very curious what that's like.

Like, handwriting doesn't do a thing for me. It doesn't help me learn at all.

I can't help but wonder if there's some advantage that I'm missing?

But on the other hand, I don't seem to have any problems paying attention or learning. So I'm still just so confused as to how it helps. Like, is my brain already doing the things that some other people need handwriting for? Or is it not, but handwriting doesn't do those things either?

I think I'm extra-baffled because I can't even imagine how it could help. Like, I can't think of any analogy to anything else that would help me understand. I already understand the things and listen to and see, I don't have any issues with concentration or anything... so what does the handwriting add?

I see a lot of people say that it forces you to think more deeply about the material, but I'm kind of always on "maximum thinking mode" already.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#525

Post by the_af »

InvertedRhodium wrote: post #485
fsckboy wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But that's not a reason to blanket-discourage expression nor was there a reason to blanket discourage treating books as precious and worth preserving. i'm interested in the part where you note what you noted and let the other glaring transgression pass. That was a choice.

Knowledge is precious and worth preserving, sure, but a specific copy of a book? Unless they're doodling in the margins of historical documents or rare manuscripts, I personally can't see any reason why it should matter.

Books as objects are also precious, they aren't just packaged information.

Not all books, of course. If you're reading a self help book or some technical one, scribble away at your heart's content.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#526

Post by annzabelle »

crazygringo wrote: post #524
annzabelle wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing notes by hand feels like it etches the concepts into my brain in a way that listening alone does not. Typing does not have the same feel. I have never learned how to do something substantially difficult (math, foreign language, any science, or memorizing a substantial amount of content for a humanities course) without handwriting it. I remember in 8th grade latin, I copied down conjugation charts onto a chalk…

I'm very curious what that's like. Like, handwriting doesn't do a thing for me. It doesn't help me learn at all. I can't help but wonder if there's some advantage that I'm missing? But on the other hand, I don't seem to have any problems paying attention or learning. So I'm still just so confused as to how it helps. Like, is my brain already doing the things that some other people need handwriting for? Or is it not,…

It's hard to describe. In upper level math (real analysis and the like) in college I would write every single thing the professor wrote on the chalkboard down in my notebook. I didn't really study or do much homework, but copying down those proofs made the concepts stay in my brain.

Do you write when you do math? Math and handwriting are so intertwined in my experience, I can't imagine doing math past high school without at least jotting some parts of the process down.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#527

Post by makeitdouble »

SubmarineClub wrote: post #409
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #233

I've always been pretty skeptical of the data which says handwriting is better for learning than typing. Yes, handwriting causes more brain activity, but just because your brain is doing more does not mean it's doing the right thing! For example, if I asked you to code FizzBuzz while riding a unicycle, I'm pretty sure you would show more brain activity than if you were just sitting at a desk. This does not mean it's…

Handwriting notes engages your spatial memory, which is incredibly powerful (see: the ancient method of loci/memory palace techniques) There were times in college where I blanked on important information during an exam, but was able to recall it by visualizing the physical sheets I had written my notes on. I aced several infamously difficult classes like OChem and OChem 2 using that technique. I’ve never found it pos…

I'm curious how many times you end up in the similar situations as an exam after you graduate from college.

I share your experience of remembering written notes while a student, but I also don't have any critical need to perfectly remember any of the notes I'm taking now so comparison points are scarce.

I still remember the code shape of methods, classes or screens I work the most on while programming, so I don't see it as bound to a specific medium. That's one reason why I use figjam or Miro type tools so much as well.

Visual and spacial memory are powerful for many of us, but the relation to handwriting and perfectly memorizing things isn't straightforward, and getting adapted tool will tremendously help IMHO.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#529

Post by the_af »

chupchap wrote: post #477
Diogenesian wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy used books: it sucks to see someone else's notes scribbled all over the page. It's like a really annoying guy whispering at you with vapid explanations while you're trying to pay attention to a lecture. "Cross out stuff you disagree with" actually makes me sick. It also seems useless for understanding and retention, since highlighting is almost always misleading and margin notes are almost always empty. If you…

Why do you buy used books? You sound like the person who would prefer new books.

Some books and some editions in particular can be hard to find new.

Re: Writing by hand is good for your brain

#530

Post by makeitdouble »

jcubic wrote: post #453
wingworks wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think like many things, it's not universally true. At least for me I'm a really slow writer (and poor spelling), that if I were to hand write notes in a lecture, I'd focus on writing and miss half of what is said, and fall behind to the point that something I was copying from the board gets wiped off. Maybe typing isn't ideal, but it's the better of the 2 options for me.

When you are writing notes during lectures, you should not write word for word. If you do, you will never catch up with what is said. People often speak faster than they write. If you want to take notes during lectures, you need to learn how to summarize in your own words. You need to write the stuff down so you can remember what was in the lecture. Something you can summarize the whole sentence with one word. Notes…

You're not really addressing parent's point IMHO. They could totally be taking well summarized notes on their computer, and free more time to properly listen instead of scribing it painfully.

I'm sure people have anecdotes of students furiously typing down every word of a lecture, but that's the same point for people handwriting/half stenographing fast enough to do the same. The attitude isn't bound to the medium.

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