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Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

washington.edu

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Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#21

Post by freshhawk »

seanica wrote: post #12
ISL wrote: post #2

ArXiv paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847 This work attempts to draw out the presence of a simulation by looking for tiny violations of known/expected symmetries, which is always worth doing. We should note, however, that an excellent simulation could exactly cover its tracks, lest the underlying architecture cause unintended artifacts. From a CS perspective, the simulation's developer might create unit tests that…

> A theorist who develops an experimental test that could prove we do not live in a simulation should be lauded. That sounds like they would be proving a negative, which is impossible to do.

They can prove we don't live in the specific type of simulation they are testing for.

But they have no reason to believe we are in that type of simulation, they just figured out a way to falsify that type of simulation.

1 down, an infinite number to go!

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#22

Post by [deleted] »

alanctgardner2 wrote: post #16
seanica wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A theorist who develops an experimental test that could prove we do not live in a simulation should be lauded. That sounds like they would be proving a negative, which is impossible to do.

That's a pretty silly statement. Surely you can prove that 1+1!=3, which is the negative of 1+1=3. You can also prove that pi is not a rational number, 1/2 is not an integer, etc. There's a post on the front page about attempting to prove P!=NP.

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#23

Post by nsxwolf »

rymith wrote: post #15

What would be the purpose of a simulation with so much pain and suffering. Where children get raped, flayed, abused, etc... And don't give me any of that matrix crap, that was only to make a flawed concept make just enough sense that you didn't fully think it through until the next bullet time scene. I'm certainly not on the outside paying for this. I have a degenerative bone disease that's caused me to have 6 major…

Very interesting that you can replace 'simulation' with 'God' and your statements are a perfect recitation of 'The Problem of Evil'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#24

Post by caseysoftware »

electrograv wrote: post #3

The scientific paper deals with "the hypothesis that the observed universe is a numerical simulation performed on a cubic space-time lattice or grid". Just because the universe may operate with computer-like regularity and grid-like data structures does not mean "the universe is a computer simulation." At best it means the fundamental laws of physics are "computer-like". Whether "resembles a computer simulation" equa…

Also.. if we are a simulation, wouldn't those running the simulation see what we're doing and supply us with the correct results that we would expect?

They could just hardcode it..

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#25

Post by alexmat »

ck2 wrote: post #20

I thought the more plausible theory is we are a projection of another dimension. But pain and suffering seems far too real and horrible for any of this to be fake.

How is "fake" pain different from real pain? From my understanding, our neural correlate of consciousness is in fact a transparent self model simulation our brain is running, so in that sense all conscious pain experience is "fake". Or do you mean something else?

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#26

Post by spindritf »

caseysoftware wrote: post #24
electrograv wrote: post #3

The scientific paper deals with "the hypothesis that the observed universe is a numerical simulation performed on a cubic space-time lattice or grid". Just because the universe may operate with computer-like regularity and grid-like data structures does not mean "the universe is a computer simulation." At best it means the fundamental laws of physics are "computer-like". Whether "resembles a computer simulation" equa…

Also.. if we are a simulation, wouldn't those running the simulation see what we're doing and supply us with the correct results that we would expect? They could just hardcode it..

Maybe they're not so bright or careful? Or maybe it's all happening too fast for them?

http://lesswrong.com/lw/qk/that_alien_message/

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#27

Post by mayanksinghal »

dhughes wrote: post #6
benjohnson wrote: post #4

If the universe is a simulation, what's to stop the simulation from recognizing that it's being tested and dedicating more resources to making the test result indicate that there is no simulation going on.

Isaac Asimov's 'The Last Question' answers that.

I feel stupid that I absolutely love this story but have no idea what you are you referring to.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#28

Post by azakai »

freshhawk wrote: post #14

This strikes me as equivalent to researchers hundreds of years ago saying "well if our universe is a clockwork simulation then we should be able to detect the gears turning by this method". Certainly interesting ... I'm not sure that we could currently understand a single principle of a system capable of simulating our universe.

Well yes, it is equivalent. And they looked more and more carefully, and never found tiny clockwork gears, so that was not supported by the evidence.

What they did find were abstract, mechanical laws of physics.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#30

Post by ComputerGuru »

dhughes wrote: post #6
benjohnson wrote: post #4

If the universe is a simulation, what's to stop the simulation from recognizing that it's being tested and dedicating more resources to making the test result indicate that there is no simulation going on.

Isaac Asimov's 'The Last Question' answers that.

The Last Question is one of my most favorite short stories, and unless I'm completely missing something, has nothing to do with simulation.
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