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Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

washington.edu

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Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#11
post #2

ArXiv paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847 This work attempts to draw out the presence of a simulation by looking for tiny violations of known/expected symmetries, which is always worth doing. We should note, however, that an excellent simulation could exactly cover its tracks, lest the underlying architecture cause unintended artifacts. From a CS perspective, the simulation's developer might create unit tests that…

I think they're assuming that the simulators don't have infinite resources, so eventually we'll find a 'wall' in the simulation.

"With finite resources at their disposal, our descendants will likely make use of effective theory methods, as is done today, to simulate every-increasing complexity, by, for instance, using meshes that adapt to the relevant physical length scales, or by using fluid dynamics to determine the behavior of fluids, which are constrained to rigorously reproduce the fundamental laws of nature."

It's possible that if we were simulated, the simulators aren't actually trying to hide the nature of our universe from us. It's also possible even though the simulation started with a 'simple' framework that they could have hidden better if desired, that by becoming a self aware information system we can no longer be switched off / restarted without violating their ethical constraints. So it's possible that the limits a simulation actually are detectable.

Of course as someone said, if the simulators were actively monitoring your thoughts with the intent of stopping you from finding the boundaries then there truly would be nothing you could do.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#12
post #2

ArXiv paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847 This work attempts to draw out the presence of a simulation by looking for tiny violations of known/expected symmetries, which is always worth doing. We should note, however, that an excellent simulation could exactly cover its tracks, lest the underlying architecture cause unintended artifacts. From a CS perspective, the simulation's developer might create unit tests that…

> A theorist who develops an experimental test that could prove we do not live in a simulation should be lauded.

That sounds like they would be proving a negative, which is impossible to do.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#13
The mystery between DMT and brain chemistry is also a valid area to understand such an idea. DMT is a naturally occurring substance that's in the human body, animals and various plants. The mystery is that it is almost identical to serotonin and tryptophan.

But it is not like any other drug. It's almost unfair to call it a drug. Under its effects, reality looks radically different. You can see the math and inherent aspects within physical reality. With your eyes closed, the experience is even more profound.

Of course, it's likely just an artificial experience, a chemical delusion. But it an amazingly mystical experience, that can be duplicated over and over. It's unlike any other psychedelic and is the only scientific way I'm aware of that induces a "real" mystical/spiritual experience.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#14
This strikes me as equivalent to researchers hundreds of years ago saying "well if our universe is a clockwork simulation then we should be able to detect the gears turning by this method".

Certainly interesting ... I'm not sure that we could currently understand a single principle of a system capable of simulating our universe.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#15
What would be the purpose of a simulation with so much pain and suffering. Where children get raped, flayed, abused, etc... And don't give me any of that matrix crap, that was only to make a flawed concept make just enough sense that you didn't fully think it through until the next bullet time scene. I'm certainly not on the outside paying for this. I have a degenerative bone disease that's caused me to have 6 major surgeries in 6 years. If this is a simulation, when I get out, I'm going to kill the son of a bitch that put me in here.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#16
post #12
post #2

ArXiv paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847 This work attempts to draw out the presence of a simulation by looking for tiny violations of known/expected symmetries, which is always worth doing. We should note, however, that an excellent simulation could exactly cover its tracks, lest the underlying architecture cause unintended artifacts. From a CS perspective, the simulation's developer might create unit tests that…

> A theorist who develops an experimental test that could prove we do not live in a simulation should be lauded. That sounds like they would be proving a negative, which is impossible to do.

That's a pretty silly statement. Surely you can prove that 1+1!=3, which is the negative of 1+1=3. You can also prove that pi is not a rational number, 1/2 is not an integer, etc. There's a post on the front page about attempting to prove P!=NP.

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#17
post #12
post #2

ArXiv paper: http://arxiv.org/abs/1210.1847 This work attempts to draw out the presence of a simulation by looking for tiny violations of known/expected symmetries, which is always worth doing. We should note, however, that an excellent simulation could exactly cover its tracks, lest the underlying architecture cause unintended artifacts. From a CS perspective, the simulation's developer might create unit tests that…

> A theorist who develops an experimental test that could prove we do not live in a simulation should be lauded. That sounds like they would be proving a negative, which is impossible to do.

I am wearing only two socks. Both socks are black.

Is it impossible for me to prove that I'm not wearing red socks?

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#18
This idea is way older. Various mystics already envisioned the metaphysical structure of the world in such way (i.e. creation of reality through symbolic transformation - computational idea similar to Markov's algorithms).

See for example Taam Eytzo by R. Pinchas Eliyahu Horowitz of Vilna (18th century philosopher and mystic): http://www.hebrewbooks.org/21931

There are a few papers published on this subject:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/01445340.2010.506...

http://aleph.nli.org.il/F?func=find-b&request=000509568&...

Re: Do we live in a computer simulation? UW researchers say idea can be tested

#19
post #13

The mystery between DMT and brain chemistry is also a valid area to understand such an idea. DMT is a naturally occurring substance that's in the human body, animals and various plants. The mystery is that it is almost identical to serotonin and tryptophan. But it is not like any other drug. It's almost unfair to call it a drug. Under its effects, reality looks radically different. You can see the math and inherent a…

You listen to too much Joe Rogan.
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