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Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

obsoletesony.substack.com

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Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#41

Post by trencedamp »

Jiro wrote: post #35
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

My "MP3 player" is a phone with Musicolet. If you really distrust phones, you can buy a cheap phone and use it only for that and nothing else. There are probably other offline MP3 players but this one seems pretty good. (It is hard to find a phone with an SD card slot and a headphone jack but that's a separate issue.)

The problem with cheap phones is how big they all are

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#42

Post by trencedamp »

nubinetwork wrote: post #15
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

The iPod was a product in an interesting time... if you ignore the screen, a modern mp3 player could be made as small as a SD card... as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen. Nobody wants to put the effort into something that's going to be as basic as a mp3 player.

It barely needs a screen. I adored my minidisc players and they were all basically calculator displays

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#43

Post by SpecialistK »

trencedamp wrote: post #37
SpecialistK wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an irony here, because Sony do make MP3 Walkmans based on Android: https://electronics.sony.com/audio/c/walkman-digital-recorde...

That would be "some sort of enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much" The entry level Walkman is $400 and only has 32gb internal storage. It's all about flac and hires audio but you're paying through the nose for the brand

They had models like the A55L (https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/sony-nw-a55l) which were more affordable, but the venn diagram of "cheap" and "niche audiophile gear" is two separate circles. Those who want nostalgia get iPods and mod them with SD cards and new batteries. Those who want Android and a headphone jack have older used phones or new budget ones (Moto g Power 2024 is US$129) and the market for cheap "nuggets" is not wide enough nor would there be enough margin to justify continued production.

That product category simply isn't worthwhile for big brands anymore.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#44

Post by jayGlow »

trencedamp wrote: post #38
turtlebits wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Because you can do that with any phone and just not use the phone part?

Because I want something half the size of a phone. I don't need a giant screen, I just want a player that can do music or audiobooks and be light enough to run with. I find myself researching, trying to find the smallest lightest old phone that either has decent internal memory or a micro SD slot, but it's not easy. Most phones are massive compared to an iPod shuffle

you could use a smart watch, not nearly as much storage but for playing music while running it can work well enough.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#45

Post by ezst »

trencedamp wrote: post #42
nubinetwork wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPod was a product in an interesting time... if you ignore the screen, a modern mp3 player could be made as small as a SD card... as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen. Nobody wants to put the effort into something that's going to be as basic as a mp3 player.

It barely needs a screen. I adored my minidisc players and they were all basically calculator displays

Would you still adore it as much today, though? I know I don't adore my iPod classic as much now as I did in 2006, and that's inclusive of the nostalgia kick. It's just not very practical and usable in today's world.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#46

Post by jerlam »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #31
jerlam wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP3s have been on the way out for a long time, being replaced by music subscriptions. And "MP3 player" is a feature of other devices, not its own device. Both my Apple Watch and Garmin watch can store and play MP3s without a phone; both also support music subscriptions. The only market is in the "enthusiast audiophile flac player thing that costs way too much", just like it is currently for vinyls and DVD players.

> MP3s have been on the way out for a long time, being replaced by music subscriptions I both have music subscriptions (Spotify for the wife, Qobuz for me: Qobuz streams lossless but sucks for music discovery) and good old files (mostly FLAC files indeed except some very old, impossible-to-find, live recordings I only have in mp3). One does not prevent the other. Also some people self-host or partially self-host thin…

I'm not saying that MP3 and CDs and cassette tapes and vinyl don't work. But they are on the decline and no company would be wise to make a mass-market device specifically for them, when the mass market has moved on.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#47

Post by ezst »

ragall wrote: post #21
sdevonoes wrote: post #4

Got it. But then why Nike/Adidas/Quicksilver/etc cannot bring back clothes from the 90s? Buying second hand is not that nice (smells that never go away) and “vintage” places sell min. catalogue buy way overpriced.

> But then why Nike/Adidas/Quicksilver/etc cannot bring back clothes from the 90s? They can, but people wouldn't want to pay the price. When adjusting for inflation, clothes today are much cheaper than 30 years ago, and the main producers of high-quality cotton (Kazakhstan and Egypt) are having continuous drought problems so the best raw material is even more expensive. The combination of customer expectation for low…

> and the manufacturers are barely surviving

I feel for them because I wouldn't mind paying 2/3 times the price for something of measurably higher quality and durability, but it takes effort and dedication to accomplish that as a customer. Effectively the market is saturated with premium-branded items that are marginally better or sometimes worse (a lot of what you see as "technical clothing" comes across that way at least), you feel gaslit by marketing, fake reviews and astroturfing campaigns, and there are only so many deceptions, defeats and financial losses you can sustain before going back to the devil you know: the default everyone else is buying.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#48

Post by Rohansi »

nubinetwork wrote: post #15
trencedamp wrote: post #13

This is a really interesting read. But it doesn't answer one question I have, which is why can't Sony or Apple or anyone else bring back decent MP3 players? None of this technology is lost, and there are plenty of small-time two bit no name players out there still making them, often in a much smaller, much slicker form factor than than the original digital Walkman or iPod. If I want to buy a new MP3 player, I have to…

The iPod was a product in an interesting time... if you ignore the screen, a modern mp3 player could be made as small as a SD card... as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen. Nobody wants to put the effort into something that's going to be as basic as a mp3 player.

> as soon as you add the screen, you need a full operating system to manage files and run the screen

More software? Sure. An operating system? No. There were (are?) plenty of cheap MP3 players that had screens but just drive it with some budget microcontroller.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#49

Post by wmf »

trencedamp wrote: post #38
turtlebits wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't somebody take simple smartphone hardware and make a modern media player that is not a phone? Because you can do that with any phone and just not use the phone part?

Because I want something half the size of a phone. I don't need a giant screen, I just want a player that can do music or audiobooks and be light enough to run with. I find myself researching, trying to find the smallest lightest old phone that either has decent internal memory or a micro SD slot, but it's not easy. Most phones are massive compared to an iPod shuffle

There are a ton of these and they're all behind your "company I've never heard of" blind spot.

Re: Why Sony can't bring back its classic Walkman models

#50

Post by cbmuser »

It’s really only economics, there is simply no relevant market for mechanical cassette players that would justify the investment.

I don’t think it’s true that the capabilities to make these devices are lost. There are still companies like ALPS that are capable of making the necessary parts.

But in the end, the market is too small to justify any investments.

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