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Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

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Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#11

Post by kbigdelysh »

calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #2

"safety" is usually the first point out of the mouth of a self-driving advocate. If safety = preservation of life, I wonder how truly "safe" full Waymo supremacy would be when there are millions of Americans who drive for a living [1], in a country where working age adults need a full-time job to get basic healthcare. Through that lens, I honestly don't know if Waymo's future would lead to preservation of life. I act…

You can say the same for most of the technology progress. For example, self-propelled combine harvesters caused mass migration of Americans in 1940s from rural areas to cities because they were out of job. With your logic, it should have not happened.

The better approach is to ask government to come up with a solutions that does not involve limiting science and tech.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#12

Post by lotsofpulp »

calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #10
vel0city wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we have also not cheered on electric computers replacing all the expensive, skilled mathematician/computing jobs that used to exist? Keypunch operators? Telephone switchboard operators? Advanced printers replacing the vast majority of the typesetting work and tons of maintenance involved with early printers? Bowling Pinspotters? Tollbooth collectors? Should we smash the machines in the factories and go back to…

Wow, heckin' epic comeback good sir, upvoted and take my Reddit gold. Never heard it before. I'm just saying it's awfully convenient to the owner class that silicon valley wants to speedrun "full autonomous takeover" while politicians saw away at individuals' economic security. I would LOVE an autonomous utopia but if Waymo wants do the "autonomous" without the social safety net, they can spare me the BS about this s…

Business being about business is not revelatory. Your grief is with the government, and by proxy, the voters.

There is a ton of research that can be done, or trash that can be picked up if people “need” jobs. The government just needs to tax and pay for it.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#13

Post by amanaplanacanal »

calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #2

"safety" is usually the first point out of the mouth of a self-driving advocate. If safety = preservation of life, I wonder how truly "safe" full Waymo supremacy would be when there are millions of Americans who drive for a living [1], in a country where working age adults need a full-time job to get basic healthcare. Through that lens, I honestly don't know if Waymo's future would lead to preservation of life. I act…

If health care is the only problem, then Medicare for all is the solution. We can have better health care and possibly fewer automobile deaths.

It is yet to be seen whether waymo can really drive everywhere that humans drive, though.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#14

Post by vel0city »

calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #10
vel0city wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we have also not cheered on electric computers replacing all the expensive, skilled mathematician/computing jobs that used to exist? Keypunch operators? Telephone switchboard operators? Advanced printers replacing the vast majority of the typesetting work and tons of maintenance involved with early printers? Bowling Pinspotters? Tollbooth collectors? Should we smash the machines in the factories and go back to…

Wow, heckin' epic comeback good sir, upvoted and take my Reddit gold. Never heard it before. I'm just saying it's awfully convenient to the owner class that silicon valley wants to speedrun "full autonomous takeover" while politicians saw away at individuals' economic security. I would LOVE an autonomous utopia but if Waymo wants do the "autonomous" without the social safety net, they can spare me the BS about this s…

So what, its Waymo's fault we don't have a public option in healthcare? I didn't realize they invented a time machine to go back and bribe Lieberman.

Are all tech companies supposed to just stop and send all the engineers home and quit making new things until we get UBI?

In the end your frustrations seem more like policy choices being made by an elected government. 49.8% of voters thought this set of policy ideas were the way to go. I disagree vehemently, but a lot of people do like these policies overall.

In the end, we've eliminated tons of jobs in the past, and yet continue to make jobs that didn't even exist before. There will be more work to be done. What, did all those switchboard operators end up on unemployment forever? Did all those computer operators who manually loaded the tapes end up destitute forever? What do you think happened to all the lamplighters? This is one type of job that will probably face severe cuts in the future, but that's not proof there will be no other jobs for those people to do. Just not driving anymore. Just like how we don't pay for people to manually solder in all the components in our electronics anymore.

You're acting like this is some new thing, that Silicon Valley is somehow "speedrunning" this, but this has just been the case of technology throughout all of historical humanity. New technology comes in and supplants expensive labor. I don't see what makes autonomous vehicles different.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#16

Post by ErroneousBosh »

vel0city wrote: post #9
calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #2

"safety" is usually the first point out of the mouth of a self-driving advocate. If safety = preservation of life, I wonder how truly "safe" full Waymo supremacy would be when there are millions of Americans who drive for a living [1], in a country where working age adults need a full-time job to get basic healthcare. Through that lens, I honestly don't know if Waymo's future would lead to preservation of life. I act…

Should we have also not cheered on electric computers replacing all the expensive, skilled mathematician/computing jobs that used to exist? Keypunch operators? Telephone switchboard operators? Advanced printers replacing the vast majority of the typesetting work and tons of maintenance involved with early printers? Bowling Pinspotters? Tollbooth collectors? Should we smash the machines in the factories and go back to…

> I think as long as roads are open to the public there will be some humans behind the wheel.

Pretty much every car will have a human driver. Autonomous vehicles don't work.

Waymo's cars are driven remotely by humans.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#17

Post by vel0city »

ErroneousBosh wrote: post #16
vel0city wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we have also not cheered on electric computers replacing all the expensive, skilled mathematician/computing jobs that used to exist? Keypunch operators? Telephone switchboard operators? Advanced printers replacing the vast majority of the typesetting work and tons of maintenance involved with early printers? Bowling Pinspotters? Tollbooth collectors? Should we smash the machines in the factories and go back to…

> I think as long as roads are open to the public there will be some humans behind the wheel. Pretty much every car will have a human driver. Autonomous vehicles don't work. Waymo's cars are driven remotely by humans.

Is sometimes drawing a path on a screen and clicking execute really "driving" the car?

They've got 70ish people as operators controlling a fleet of thousands of cars. Does the operator have a desk with like 50 steering wheels he's using all the time?

AV operators will be a job in the future (its a real job today, as well). Instead of sitting behind the wheel of one cab all the time though, they'll just respond to the weird edge cases that creep up and validate things are working properly.

We still have people in charge of the street light operations. There is not nearly as much work to do anymore, so we don't have nearly as many of them.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#18

Post by testing22321 »

calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #2

"safety" is usually the first point out of the mouth of a self-driving advocate. If safety = preservation of life, I wonder how truly "safe" full Waymo supremacy would be when there are millions of Americans who drive for a living [1], in a country where working age adults need a full-time job to get basic healthcare. Through that lens, I honestly don't know if Waymo's future would lead to preservation of life. I act…

It never ceases to amaze just how many logical backflips Americans will do to avoid saying “our healthcare system is shit and must be fixed”.

If you work at it, I’m sure you’ll find a justification that Americans should all stop breathing because it’s bad for health insurance profits !

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#19

Post by beering »

autoexec wrote: post #4

Unless those people are also driving taxis maybe. Waymo Robotaxis Record Higher Serious Injury and Fatal Crash Rate Than NYC's For-Hire Fleet ( https://www.yahoo.com/news/science/articles/waymo-robotaxis-... ) It may also be worth noting that waymo doesn't report all crashes to the DMV and they went to court to keep crash data secret ( https://techcrunch.com/2022/02/22/waymo-to-keep-robotaxi-saf... )

I looked through the report. It’s a bad report but it couldn’t have been done well because of not having apples to apples data. They compare data from very different environments (all CA Waymo vs NYC taxi) and just kind of shrug aside that difference.

Re: Waymo's driverless cars crash less often than people

#20

Post by beering »

calldacopsidgaf wrote: post #2

"safety" is usually the first point out of the mouth of a self-driving advocate. If safety = preservation of life, I wonder how truly "safe" full Waymo supremacy would be when there are millions of Americans who drive for a living [1], in a country where working age adults need a full-time job to get basic healthcare. Through that lens, I honestly don't know if Waymo's future would lead to preservation of life. I act…

Prop up the existing wage-slavery system because anything else would cause people to not have healthcare coverage? It’s shockingly unimaginative.

Anyways, my last Uber driver was playing games on his iPad while driving. Did a good job of hiding it at first.

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