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EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

theguardian.com

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Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#171

Post by Muromec »

inigyou wrote: post #150
dathinab wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google knowingly and _intentionally_ breached the law. A fundamental rule for capitalism to work well long term is that oligopoly and similar should not exist and must be rained in or outright split up if they exist. If that rule isn't followed capitalism turns from a tool which can support democracy to one which will sooner or later tear it apart. It's basically the economic version of the number one rule of democra…

You are describing free markets, I think, not capitalism. Capitalism is when rich people control everything, and we've achieved that.

That usually corrects itself too, eventually.

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#172

Post by dathinab »

inigyou wrote: post #150
dathinab wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google knowingly and _intentionally_ breached the law. A fundamental rule for capitalism to work well long term is that oligopoly and similar should not exist and must be rained in or outright split up if they exist. If that rule isn't followed capitalism turns from a tool which can support democracy to one which will sooner or later tear it apart. It's basically the economic version of the number one rule of democra…

You are describing free markets, I think, not capitalism. Capitalism is when rich people control everything, and we've achieved that.

if we are nit picking definition then to quote wikipedia:

> Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and its use for the purpose of obtaining profit

this neither implies free markets nor that "rich people control everything" but it more like a large category of economical systems we haven't always given distinct names

but common reasoning why capitalism and democracy work well together are based on a form of capitalism which fundamental requires fair and free markets.

This are the forms of capitalism the US had been fighting for in the past, the forms of capitalism most EU countries have committed to, but definitely not the form of capitalism we have in the US today.

The forms of capitalism which endanger instead of complement democracy have IMHO no place in democratic countries and IMHO we should give this harmful sub-category of capitalism it's own name to be able to better fight it.

Anyway just because there are bad forms of capitalism doesn't mean there aren't also good forms. And when pushing for "fixing" capitalism you at least have some chance to reach people. When you instead push to "replace" capitalism you are pretty fast hitting a wall where people aren't even willing to entertain reasoning with you (which is probably why the right wing tries to re-lable most things they don't like as anti-capitalist, communist or socialist even when the arguments have nothing to do with any of that (well the term socialism has been redefine and appropriated so often it has lost any meaning in taken out of context, but that is a different topic).

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#173

Post by Timon3 »

stodor89 wrote: post #24
cmiles8 wrote: post #4

For Google this is just like parking tickets to UPS. A cost of doing business in town.

Yep. If a train ticket costs 100 euro and the fine for freeloading is 5 euro, you'd be a fool to buy a ticket. Don't blame Google for pushing boundaries. That's what people (and corpos) do in any competitive activity. Do blame our politicians for being incompetent and ill-meaning.

You're leaving out the tiny detail that Google, like all tech giants (and like all big companies) is pouring tons of money into politics, and that's just talking about spending out in the open. How much money do you think Google and it's investors have collectively spent to influence politics?

So no, Google shouldn't get a pass for pushing boundaries. Thinking like this only protects the capital class and the politicians responsible for this mess.

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#174

Post by shevy-java »

p-e-w wrote: post #94
20k wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is they usually comply with the specific law being broken, and then immediately stop complying with a different law The goal should be to incentivise them to comply with the law as a whole, not to keep deliberately breaking different sections of the law to make profit above the level of fines That's why people want the level of the fines to go up, to disincentivise the more broad lawbreaking

Imagine regular laws worked that way, where a prior conviction is only relevant if it was for the exact same crime, and you can go around committing dozens of crimes and be treated like a first offender every time because this time you chose robbery and last time it was theft.

Well, usually for small crimes, repeated offenders get subsequently higher and higher fines. Now if only this were to work for corporations too ...

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#175

Post by Ae0lis »

granzymes wrote: post #154

At this point I assume Google is just budgeting for a $1B annual tax for operating in the EU.

Yeah, 1bil sound like a lot but it's about 0.2% of just their annual revenue. I don't think they're too worried tbh. Barely even a slap on the wrist.

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#177

Post by stodor89 »

Timon3 wrote: post #173
stodor89 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. If a train ticket costs 100 euro and the fine for freeloading is 5 euro, you'd be a fool to buy a ticket. Don't blame Google for pushing boundaries. That's what people (and corpos) do in any competitive activity. Do blame our politicians for being incompetent and ill-meaning.

You're leaving out the tiny detail that Google, like all tech giants (and like all big companies) is pouring tons of money into politics, and that's just talking about spending out in the open. How much money do you think Google and it's investors have collectively spent to influence politics? So no, Google shouldn't get a pass for pushing boundaries. Thinking like this only protects the capital class and the politic…

Of course they shouldn't get a pass.

My point is, we can't expect them to behave. And if they promise to, that promise isn't worth much.

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#178

Post by moi2388 »

leonidasrup wrote: post #156
baridbelmedar wrote: post #147

The EU as a whole is walking a tightrope. Its largest economies still depend heavily on the US market. If the current US regime perceives that US companies are being targeted by EU "taxes", regardless of whether those laws are legitimate, there is a real danger of US retaliation. Key sectors could take the hit, including automotive manufacturing, industrial equipment, chemicals, electronics, fashion, textiles, and lu…

US tariffs on EU automotive manufacturing, industrial equipment, chemicals, electronics, fashion, textiles, and luxury food and wine, would be only slap on wrist. The real danger of US retaliation for EU are: export tariffs on US LNG, loosing arms exports for Ukraine. This the real EU delicate balancing act.

At the beginning of 2025, the US was only supplying 20% of the military aid to ukraine.

After that it has practically completely dried up. Ukraine and the EU are already producing themselves.

This is a big long term loss to the US.

Also if US makes their LNG unaffordable the EU will simply switch to countries like India.

Who exactly is the US going to still sell to?

Re: EU fines Google €890M for competition breaches over search and apps

#180

Post by yodsanklai »

hunglee2 wrote: post #170
flohofwoe wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Trump gonna respond to this with an escalation for sure This is basically the equivalent of the weekly nuclear annihilation threat from the Moscow direction ;) Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning

to be fair to Trump, he does respond to corporate lobby - Pichai just got to make a phone call and an EO will be rolling out in short order. This is not because Gogole controls Trump, it is simply that Trump is a nationalist and will defend US companies, he just needs to be reminded to do so

> Trump is a nationalist and will defend US companies

Does it though? Companies have to corrupt him in various ways to get his favors. Pichai won't get that for free.

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