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UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

theguardian.com

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Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#31

Post by gandalfian »

dwroberts wrote: post #19

Not sure I quite get how this works from the wall plug PoV: if you have smart metering on your electricity, will it actually show you drawing less from the grid due to the input provided by the panels to your local wiring etc? Or is that it actually goes back to the grid and you would pay your bill minus the amount you’ve fed back in?

In Uk, If an old (rare) mechanical meter the meter will go backwards, the ideal. If a dumb digital meter the meter will simply pause counting up. If a smartmeter again the import reading will pause but a separate export reading will count up, for which you get no credit or debit but its nice to know. Ideally as battery prices drop you end up buying a battery that soaks up any surplus for later and so you don't lose any back to the grid. If you pay up for a commercially installed solar you can get paid for what you export but with plug in solar you just give it away.

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#32

Post by jwitchel »

There is near zero actual risk. These systems have been around for a long time and are widely deployed in Europe.

Circuit breakers have been around for a century and work great. You plug something in that pushes or pulls too much current and pop - disconnect.

So while they are absolutely safe, there's huge FUD coming from the utilities who lose revenue AND PROFIT they were getting from you with each system.

Pacific Gas and Electric, Southern California Edison, Florida Power & Light (FPL), Commonwealth Edison (ComEd), Consolidated Edison (ConEd) are all for profit monopolies.

Asking them if it's safe is like asking Microsoft if you should switch away from Word. It does not matter the reasoning, the answer was always going to be the same.

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#33

Post by tialaramex »

crote wrote: post #23
mock-possum wrote: post #2

Huh! Where does this stand in the US? I’ve always heard it’s significantly risky to plug power-generation directly into a wall outlet (though you can do it in a pinch)

> I’ve always heard it’s significantly risky to plug power-generation directly into a wall outlet. Depends on what is generating the power. Traditional fuel-powered emergency generators are indeed risky, as they are designed to operate on their own. They do not need the grid to be present as they will generate their own sine wave. This means they'll happily feed power outside your house, and nothing is preventing you…

If people are interested, the magic word is "islanding" and the key technology you want which makes this stuff safe to deploy is thus "anti-islanding protection".

If your device discovers it has become an "island", generating power with no real grid (maybe there are two similar panels next door but not a 10GW power grid) it switches off. This is not only safer for you, it's also critical for repair people who might be fixing some overhead line miles away and then a dozen stupid devices inject lethal power onto a circuit their operator has assured them is dead - because from their end it was dead.

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#34

Post by QuercusMax »

varispeed wrote: post #21

So it costs £400 and can shave up to £100 a year - how it was calculated? In best case scenario you'll have to hang this thing off balcony for 4 years to break even. Will it be good after 4 years? I cannot see the economics of that. If it shaves £50, then it's 8 years. How long do they last? How much maintenance costs (cleaning etc.) Sounds like a way to stuff the poor with copium device. The rich will get minted and…

You think a balcony solar panel is going to die after 4 years? Why? What makes it different from any other solar panel? They have lives in decades.

You're spouting tired anti-solar talking points. Again, why?

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#35

Post by DamonHD »

gandalfian wrote: post #31
dwroberts wrote: post #19

Not sure I quite get how this works from the wall plug PoV: if you have smart metering on your electricity, will it actually show you drawing less from the grid due to the input provided by the panels to your local wiring etc? Or is that it actually goes back to the grid and you would pay your bill minus the amount you’ve fed back in?

In Uk, If an old (rare) mechanical meter the meter will go backwards, the ideal. If a dumb digital meter the meter will simply pause counting up. If a smartmeter again the import reading will pause but a separate export reading will count up, for which you get no credit or debit but its nice to know. Ideally as battery prices drop you end up buying a battery that soaks up any surplus for later and so you don't lose a…

In the UK as a consumer you can (always AFAIK) get a smart meter for free, and your retail supplier is required to offer you a non-zero rate (the "Smart Export Guarantee") for what you export back to the grid. That can be as high as about half the rate to import.

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#36

Post by Someone1234 »

I've looked into this extensively in the US, and there are three headaches from my POV:

1. Most states require special device certification by a "nationally recognized authority" that doesn't seem to fully exist yet. There ARE devices that would almost certainly GET certified, but aren't yet.

2. Ordering panels is a PITA. Most want to sell you either RV/Camping grade (overpriced), or in too large of quantities (e.g. 10x+). If you want to hit under 1,200 Watts meaning just 2x 600 Watt panels, well, nobody wants to ship that. Most popular panel vendors, don't want to sell single-panels, and you're looking at 500% markup for camping/RV style panels (with often worse performance, and proprietary connectors).

3. "Moveable" panel requirements. The laws frequently don't define what that means or what that looks like. It seems to want to essentially ban a small roof install, but stuff like ground-mounting (e.g. even just for the angle), or securing so they don't blow over, is ambiguous. Plus most laws don't exempt you from planning requirements, just utility requirements, so the local city/county can still fine you for your "install."

What I am saying is: I'm absolutely in love with plug-in solar, but unfortunately being an early adopter in the US is going to be annoying. I hope in ten years it will be almost turn-key, just buy a "kit" plug it in, and you're done.

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#37

Post by MagicMoonlight »

varispeed wrote: post #21

So it costs £400 and can shave up to £100 a year - how it was calculated? In best case scenario you'll have to hang this thing off balcony for 4 years to break even. Will it be good after 4 years? I cannot see the economics of that. If it shaves £50, then it's 8 years. How long do they last? How much maintenance costs (cleaning etc.) Sounds like a way to stuff the poor with copium device. The rich will get minted and…

[dead]

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#38

Post by rickydroll »

linsomniac wrote: post #20

As I understand it, the US is mostly waiting for UL listing of equipment, which hasn't been a priority because no US locals have allowed them. With Utah and others starting to allow them, UL listing will likely come at some point (hopefully shortly) thereafter. There's this device: https://usa.apsystems.com/ez1-installers/ And also this: https://connectder.com/

If I understand the devices correctly, the current generation of microinverters should meet all power-limit requirements and disconnect if the grid goes away.

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#39

Post by toomuchtodo »

rickydroll wrote: post #38
linsomniac wrote: post #20

As I understand it, the US is mostly waiting for UL listing of equipment, which hasn't been a priority because no US locals have allowed them. With Utah and others starting to allow them, UL listing will likely come at some point (hopefully shortly) thereafter. There's this device: https://usa.apsystems.com/ez1-installers/ And also this: https://connectder.com/

If I understand the devices correctly, the current generation of microinverters should meet all power-limit requirements and disconnect if the grid goes away.

You’re correct, but states are looking for UL 3700 compliance, which extends current anti islanding inverter protection requirements to GFCI intelligence and circuit overload protection (you can overload the branch circuit without the breaker tripping, for example). Intelligent EV chargers support these protections, this is the generation version of protections mentioned.

https://electrek.co/2026/07/20/us-first-ul-3700-balcony-sola...

https://pluginsolarus.com/learn/ul-3700-safety-standard-expl...

https://permitpower.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/35/2026/01/...

https://www.cesa.org/wp-content/uploads/Plug-In-Solar.pdf

Re: UK households free to install plug-in balcony solar panels from end of August

#40

Post by varispeed »

rcxdude wrote: post #30
varispeed wrote: post #21

So it costs £400 and can shave up to £100 a year - how it was calculated? In best case scenario you'll have to hang this thing off balcony for 4 years to break even. Will it be good after 4 years? I cannot see the economics of that. If it shaves £50, then it's 8 years. How long do they last? How much maintenance costs (cleaning etc.) Sounds like a way to stuff the poor with copium device. The rich will get minted and…

4 years is a pretty good payback time, it's a pretty obvious investment if you can afford it, and it's pretty affordable (with the added bonus that if you're renting, you can take it with you). Solar panels tend to last a pretty long time, really the only worry is whether the manufacturer has cheaped out on the electronics (cleaning is literally going to be wiping it with a sponge once a year or so). (Insulating your…

Can you explain why it is "pretty obvious investment"?
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