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What happens when the information runs out

blog.jimgrey.net

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Re: What happens when the information runs out

#12

This reminds me of an old problem I used to run into with duplicate data. Duplicates are not always what they seem - duplicates have a relative quantity of how duplicate they are, for example - 100% duplicate identical is what it sounds like, but then what is a 50% duplicate? Well.. that could be a duplicate where semantic meaning that only a human is aware of (missing information) could be used to determine that the…

I spent some time working in the data industry and was fascinated with this topic as well

dont forget the data itself is already a compression of reality. text data has lost tone, situational context, emphasis, etc.

then youve also got different data that yields the roughly same information that isnt exact but serves the same purpose. for example, birthday vs age; one can be used to infer the other although it is more accurate moving in one direction than the other.

youve got resolution of data. for example, A specific hexcode value vs "deep navy blue" vs "blue". sometimes the signal is low resolution but the data type is high resolution and you end up with some tells like when a lot of date data is the 1st of the month or 1st day of the year; implying the signal was at the month level or year level, no day signal available. which to call back an earlier example, can be caused by getting a signal for age but storing it in a birthday data type field

to your point, often the "data" signal is not a single field but set, and then youve got your source updating every month or year, and its not always the same format or exact set, maybe it was collected differently or two or more different sources contributed. its hard to apply any rules without assessing the type of data being considered. newer data that is missing older data, sometimes you carry the old pieces forward and sometimes you dont. sometimes you change the shape of the data by inferring events. job title changed? well the old job title isnt wrong data, its just not their current title and now can be moved to a past job titles" field. maybe past job titles arent something that add value to your use case and it can be dropped, etc.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#14
post #6

This reminds me of how a lot of older TV shows and movies had an 'enhance' button that could somehow magically take a tiny, blurred image and blow it up to a level of detail where even the most minor things could be seen again. Like a suspect's eyes in the reflection of a window that looked like it was maybe 4 pixels in size in the original image. The AI examples and reasoning in the article are exactly why this can'…

> Any tool that tries to enhance a low quality image or video is just going to be making up the missing data.

So there is some things that instinctively don't sound correct here.

A frame may not contain the info to enhance, maybe it's too blurry... but a series of frames can (I'm pretty sure) between them have enough info to deblur an object in the background, it really helps to know the focal length, and distance maps...

My only point is information in a video is more than the sum of the information of it's frames, it also captures delta, not just from frame to frame, but relevant frame to relevant frame. That's a fair bit to work off of.

I do agree with our general point when information is 'absent'. I disagree how much absent information is in a video which can't be reconstructed by this delta. It certainly isn't zero, or 100%.

Inventing colors from a grayscale is a good example of absent information and of where this goes awry. Deblurring/blurring operations, less so.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#15
post #6

This reminds me of how a lot of older TV shows and movies had an 'enhance' button that could somehow magically take a tiny, blurred image and blow it up to a level of detail where even the most minor things could be seen again. Like a suspect's eyes in the reflection of a window that looked like it was maybe 4 pixels in size in the original image. The AI examples and reasoning in the article are exactly why this can'…

> Any tool that tries to enhance a low quality image or video is just going to be making up the missing data. So there is some things that instinctively don't sound correct here. A frame may not contain the info to enhance, maybe it's too blurry... but a series of frames can (I'm pretty sure) between them have enough info to deblur an object in the background, it really helps to know the focal length, and distance ma…

> but a series of frames can (I'm pretty sure) between them have enough info to deblur an object in the background

You're probably thinking of geometrical super-resolution, such as gigapixel photography. Blurring is the discarding of high-frequency information, and only a very very small part of this information can be recovered using techniques like this (as in, so little that you wouldn't be able to notice it).

> My only point is information in a video is more than the sum of the information of it's frames,

It's actually less than the sum of the information of it's frames. An off-the-shelf lossless compression algorithm can give you an upper bound for the amount of information present in a video file.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#16
post #6

This reminds me of how a lot of older TV shows and movies had an 'enhance' button that could somehow magically take a tiny, blurred image and blow it up to a level of detail where even the most minor things could be seen again. Like a suspect's eyes in the reflection of a window that looked like it was maybe 4 pixels in size in the original image. The AI examples and reasoning in the article are exactly why this can'…

> is just going to be making up the missing data.

This is generally true. What I find fascinating is the application of information that is not present in the data but that can be confirmed by the data. I’m thinking specifically of deblurring algorithms people use to recover text. If you can guess what font is being used in a screengrab with, say, someone’s bank account blurred out, you can take the i formation contained in the downloaded font and try combinations until you match the blur algorithm that may also be information not contained in the image.

What’s also crazy, is that even if all you do is black out the text, kerning alone can still be used to guess the correct text with some degree of accuracy. I worked on redaction software at one point, and these were very much the types of things we thought about when dealing with text.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#17
post #9

But this is exactly what you expect when you ask intelligence (machine or human) to fill in missing information. It picks some plausible, middle-of-the-road filler. If you were a restoration artist with an airbrush (or photoshop) with just the instruction to make the picture nicer, that's what you'd do. If you got told the right colour, you use it, and if not, you guess.

> But this is exactly what you expect when you ask intelligence (machine or human) to fill in missing information. I haven’t read the blog post since it’s currently hugged to death (so I’m admittedly filling in missing information), but one could alternatively expect the intelligence to research the correct missing information, and to report back if it is unable to.

If it's possible, sure. But sometimes it's not possible, as with the brother's eyebrows or the horizontal slats on the gable in the first picture, both of which were invented by the AI.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#18
>I went back and explicitly told ChatGPT not to resolve details that didn’t exist in the file.

I don't know what the author thinks this could have meant, other than "give me the original". Making up details is what he is asking it to do.

True, you can't see the eyebrows in the original, but you also can't see (IMO) an absence of eyebrows and since far more people have eyebrows than not, I would be extremely surprised if it had come up with a version without them.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#19
2 main problems with this article: one it's fundamentally asking for something impossible, and two for the part that _is_ possible it's using the wrong tool for the job.

It's not possible to magic details into existence that weren't there. So if you think a color was wrong, well, that is not something that can be solved other than by using a time machine or finding a separate reference picture. Any human restoration artist would be doing the exact same thing of guessing the color.

The second problem brought up is that ChatGPT is willing non-color details into existence that aren't in the original picture (eyebrows etc). For this it's simply that the public ChatGPT image generator wasn't made for this task. You'd have to build a custom harness but I'm sure it can be done.

Re: What happens when the information runs out

#20
post #6

This reminds me of how a lot of older TV shows and movies had an 'enhance' button that could somehow magically take a tiny, blurred image and blow it up to a level of detail where even the most minor things could be seen again. Like a suspect's eyes in the reflection of a window that looked like it was maybe 4 pixels in size in the original image. The AI examples and reasoning in the article are exactly why this can'…

coughRedDwarfcough

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