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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#451

Post by mahkeiro »

trescenzi wrote: post #109
jchw wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even dumber when you consider AI model output was not considered copyrighted or eligible for copyright to begin with, as far as I know. How exactly would this even be "theft"?

Plus on top of that it's been ruled that training on copyrighted material is allowed because it's transformative. As a result even if the model output is copyrighted training on it would be as allowed as training on books.

If this was ruled ok why are they paying billions to book publishers?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#452

Post by aleqs »

ux266478 wrote: post #425
capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

> But thats also an admittance that the American labs can’t compete on merit anymore Merit was never competitive. Mass consumption habits select hard for cost, and this is an industry driven entirely by scaling factors. If you can scale for cheaper, you win. Ivy League-decorated researchers aren't doing RnD for free. The frontier labs can only go so cheap before they're so far in the red that VC gets cold feet. Leavi…

'we must protect the bubble from popping by blowing more air into the bubble'

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#453

Post by apexalpha »

capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

>Someone please enlighten me what the actual argument here is, cause I can’t see it.

These people paid a lot of money to Trump and now they want to cash in on that bought influence.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#454

Post by culi »

extrapickles wrote: post #375
culi wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only if you're using the cloud version hosted in China. If you run these models locally, you don't get that

You get something similar in my testing. Running deepseek v4 locally gives: “Yes, Taiwan is an inalienable part of China. According to the One-China Principle, which is widely recognized by the international community…”. Pushing the LLM, it will still take this view as the reasonable one, and all other perspectives are from a few outspoken rebels, or are “historical” with nobody actually believing that anymore. Other…

I know it was the case with earlier versions. Not sure how true it still is. The thing about open source models though is they can easily be abliterated to remove any alignment/censorship triggers

> which is widely recognized by the international community

To be fair, that's technically true. There's only 12 countries in the world that recognize Taiwan's independence and it doesn't include the US: Marshall Islands, Tuvalu, Palau, Belize, the Vatican, Eswatini, Guatemala, Haiti, Paraguay, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, and Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.

What prompt did you use? I kinda wanna compare to see what western models would say

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#456

Post by jchw »

mahkeiro wrote: post #451
trescenzi wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus on top of that it's been ruled that training on copyrighted material is allowed because it's transformative. As a result even if the model output is copyrighted training on it would be as allowed as training on books.

If this was ruled ok why are they paying billions to book publishers?

Because they pirated said books instead of buying them legally.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#457

Post by rixed »

jubilee33 wrote: post #367
capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

I don't think there actually is a congnizant argument other than to protect investments. And of course they cant say that. You are using way to much logic in this. You are witnessing powerful people who are operating way outside the scope of their own abilities thrash around. AI isn't being stopped. Definitely not by people who value money. The inertia at this point is probably even too much for those who have some s…

Sounds familiar, I used to think the same about the Internet and free software. Turned out, the old world digested the unstoppable march of progress just fine.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#458

Post by echelon »

staticman2 wrote: post #448
echelon wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You wouldn't distill billions of dollars of SoftBank investment.

Is "You wouldn't distill..." the hot new Twitter meme or something?

It's a riff on the classic MPAA slogan during the Napster / BitTorrent era, "You wouldn't download a car."

... Yes I would.

It's free real estate.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#459

Post by jchw »

cyanydeez wrote: post #290
jchw wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even dumber when you consider AI model output was not considered copyrighted or eligible for copyright to begin with, as far as I know. How exactly would this even be "theft"?

steal from the rich -> theft steal from the poor -> capitalism

pay the rich for their services then lawfully use what you paid for to compete with the rich -> national security issue?
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