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What happened to TheNumbers.com

stephenfollows.com

11–20 of 218 posts

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#11
This is an odd example to present this argument through.

I'm not defending AI bots overwhelming websites or hackers motivated by Polymarket, etc., but I don't really believe a 30 year old website with "approximately 160,000 source files serving around 2 million pages" is a good litmus test for the state of the online world. What's worse is the absurdity that this basic site offering niche data would be targeted because Polymarket depends on it for some of their bets, something that most websites don't have to deal with. Frankly, that seems like a much more interesting angle to explore than "this old website that should have been re-written multiple times over the last three decades now doesn't have a choice but to be re-written."

Oddly, it seems like the solution, at least in this specific case, is relatively simple (and ironic): pay for an LLM to re-write this site in a modern, scalable, secure way and have that LLM monitor the site to ensure it is behaving correctly. Put this thing in a modern platform behind a proper cache (i.e., throw the whole thing up in Cloudflare) and many of these problems just don't exist anymore. If this site is as basic as it seems, this could be a weekend project.

It's certainly an interesting story, and I don't blame the owner of The Numbers for handling his site the way he has, but framing this as "AI is destroying our beloved internet" just seems obtuse, at least through this lens.

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#12

I always liked this site, but reading this and seeing the anger about expecting the site maintainer to do things for you is repulsive. Frankly, if he wanted to pull his site down with no notice that is perfectly within his right. It was/is his site. He doesn't owe anyone a .tar.gz either. His work.

I agree. I've seen it happen before on a project I use. I decided to take a look at the repo for one of the plugins, and I saw a heinous issue that basically was TELLING (not even asking) the maintainer to fix it.

Deplorable behavior indeed

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#14
What a throwback. Back in 2015 I have started Applaudience, which at the time was the only provider of real-time cinema ticket sales data. I still remember comparing our numbers against TheNumbers.com as part of calibration. I have since moved on to other businesses, but this remains one of my favorite pieces of technology that I have developed. Would love to bring it back one day.

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#15

This is an odd example to present this argument through. I'm not defending AI bots overwhelming websites or hackers motivated by Polymarket, etc., but I don't really believe a 30 year old website with "approximately 160,000 source files serving around 2 million pages" is a good litmus test for the state of the online world. What's worse is the absurdity that this basic site offering niche data would be targeted becau…

Isn't this the NRA's argument? The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Or at least somewhere between that and full on protection racket.

LLMs come on the scene, hammer the site until it goes offline or racks up bills that threaten bankruptcy, and the solution then is to pay for an LLM to fix it and monitor it.

That's a real nice site ya got there, it would be a shame if massive datacenters going up around the world were to start hammering it from tens of thousands of IP addresses....

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#16
post #13

If the scrapers are going to get it anyway, put the data up as a zip somewhere.

It would not make any difference.

Indeed, the article mentions Wikipedia experiencing similar scraping pains, even though they already DO have bulk data available.

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#17
post #7

At the risk of oversimplifying things from a distance, this site -- especially the free, public-facing part of it -- seems like it would be an ideal candidate for a rewrite using static site generator/framework. That, coupled with a bot-aware CDN should keep them online at a reasonable cost for many years to come. Otherwise, I'm very curious to know more about their old and new architecture and what sorts of mitigati…

Yeah this seems like one of the easiest access models to create an excellent security model for -- basically just static publishing. Sounds like they were in need of a rewrite anyway! It probably seems daunting but to be honest this feels like a weekend's work at this point with LLM assistance. Not to be glib!

But it also destroys the business model behind the site.

Sure, you could technically redesign to handle the bot traffic, but if the bot traffic is just taking the data and reducing any need for humans to visit the site, why is he putting in the effort to maintain the site?

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#19

This is an odd example to present this argument through. I'm not defending AI bots overwhelming websites or hackers motivated by Polymarket, etc., but I don't really believe a 30 year old website with "approximately 160,000 source files serving around 2 million pages" is a good litmus test for the state of the online world. What's worse is the absurdity that this basic site offering niche data would be targeted becau…

The actual solution is damn simple and painfully obvious: make things like so-called "prediction markets" illegal.

The intelligence community came to the conclusion (after research and experiments) that things like "prediction markets" were a bad idea in 1996.

Far worse now than then, with the net and AI of 2026 and the insane number of people now online that want to make an easy buck.

Don't get me wrong; I am guessing some of us on here would do well on those places. But they should not exist.

Re: What happened to TheNumbers.com

#20

If the AI companies destroy the open web, eventually they'll need to start curating knowledge sources just like netflix makes movies and amazon has physical stores...

Already happening. Frontier LLM vendors have been hiring human domain experts specifically to create their own proprietary training data in targeted verticals.
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